Old Mutual On The Money
Old Mutual On The Money
Gabisile & Motlasi on love, kids, and the money questions to consider in blended families.
Building a blended family comes with real financial considerations, especially when children are involved.
In this episode of On the Money, actress and singer Gabisile Tshabalala and her partner, Motlatsi Mafatshe, join our Group Head of Financial Education, John Manyike, to reflect on the future conversations that would matter if their relationship ever moved to the next stage.
From how she would secure her children’s financial future to ensuring that they have assets in their names and avoiding long-term complications. Gabi and Motlasi share an honest look at the decisions many parents need to consider before officially blending families.
It’s an important reminder that love comes with responsibility, and planning early can prevent unnecessary complications later.
Thanks for listening! Interested in getting more financial education? Visit our website for free resources. You can follow us on X, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube.
JOHN MANYIKE [00:04] :
Welcome to Old Mutuals On The Money Show. This episode we are joined by our legendary actors. Well, you've seen them in our screens, let's have a chat with them. Dumelang.
MOTLATSI MAFATSHE [00:19] :
Dumela
JOHN MANYIKE [00:21] :
So what an honour to have Motlasi and Gabi on the same, uh, podcast. I'm sure there are things that we'll get to know today that people don't know about the two of you. And so you've been on our screens and we did Isidingo before for many years as Sechaba, Hola Pinchi and Losing Lerato. I mean, you've done, you've done, you've done your bit, you've done your gigs.
GABISILE TSHABALALA [00:51] :
Is that why you're calling me legendary? Or it just fell because? Yeah.
JOHN MANYIKE [00:59] :
Listen, two shall become one. Now, what drew you to acting?
MOTLATSI MAFATSHE [01:11] :
Legend?
GABISILE TSHABALALA [01:13] :
You can take it first legend.
MOTLATSI MAFATSHE [01:11] :
Look, I mean I, I always, I'll tell you, but my story is a bit funny because at school you know growing up everybody goes, OK, why do you want to be, the teacher goes, what do you want to be when you grow up? And then one says, I want to be a doctor, I want to be A. And so I remember they had already chosen all the careers and we’re competing in class and I thought to myself that they’ve finished all the engineer faculties, electrical, chemical, there was nothing left. Ok, then I was like, wait a minute, I want to be a, I want to be an actor. I'll tell you why I want to be an actor, because with an actor, you can actually be everything right? I'll be a doctor whoever, Mthimkhulu you know, or a policeman right? So I, I kind of enjoyed that escapism, you know, and, and, and I didn't know that you could actually study for it. And then once I got into the school and I was like, Oh my gosh, this thing is on another level in terms of psychology, in terms of understanding life you know, and, and, and, and also being free and expressive so that that's what made me get into acting, to create stories so that I can heal, so that other people can heal and, and, and also wanted to be a superstar. I wanted to have a lot of money you understand, because I was under the impression geez I’m going to be rich only to realise that it’s the total opposite.
JOHN MANYIKE [02:54] :
Gabi?
GABISILE TSHABALALA [02:55] :
What drew me into acting? I don't know, I just I, I enjoyed entertaining people, you know, so I never thought I, I would get into acting but I knew I wanted to entertain people so whether it was through making them laugh or I just wanted to see people around me happy.
JOHN MANYIKE [03:15] :
So you have a comedic side to you?
GABISILE TSHABALALA [03:17] :
Not really I don't see it but, but I'm...
JOHN MANYIKE [03:21] :
But I’m sure you’ve have people say you have that within you?
GABISILE TSHABALALA [03:23] :
People actually call us comedians out there, and I'm like, no, we're not comedians, we just make people laugh, but we're not comedians.
JOHN MANYIKE [03:30] :
So when come to acting, when it comes to acting, um what have been your proudest moments or achievements?.
GABISILE TSHABALALA [03:40] :
Proudest moment was getting that very first job. Yeah, I think that was one of my proudest moments and I remember it, it's that's where him and I actually met. I, I was, I was at school and then I saw a poster and I bunked, a poster for auditions or the show that we were on Hola Phintshi. But then I went there and they wanted you needed to know how to act and sing. I was like, I'm going to take my chances. Went there, so when I got the job, that was one of my proudest moments. But I think what made it even better was that I got a SAFTA nominee for it with my very first acting, so that was one of my proudest.
JOHN MANYIKE [04:24] :
Motlatsi?
MOTLATSI MAFATSHE [04:26] :
I've, I've had quite a lot, you know, I, I'm when I've I've always wanted to be on Isidingo. I thought that show was one of the best productions South Africa has ever produced. So to be on that show, I mean, it was a great achievement because it was a dream of mine. I, I used to be at home, watch this show and, and I sat I'm like, oh snap! How am I going to be able to get on to that show? And so in my mind, I created a narrative of how I can possibly go in the show and I got into that show and it happened in the same way that I'd plotted when I was at home. I thought that I would be Zeb’s child, Zeb Matabane. He had a second girlfriend who was pregnant so he will grow up in a couple of years they’re going to need that little boy.
JOHN MANYIKE [05:28] :
So actually you were writing a script!
MOTLATSI MAFATSHE [05:33] :
As I was sitting at home, and then funny enough, when I got into the show, it kind of worked out in that way you know, so so it was an amazing moment to realize that we are able to create things, you know, and and they able to come to life. So those are one of my greatest moments. I mean I ended up being a director in the show, you know, I was like snap! You see that dream gets bigger and bigger, so for me, for myself to go, if you believe in in something, hmm, you're able to achieve it now dream bigger. So for me, just achieving that, I think, yeah, one of the greatest moments.
JOHN MANYIKE [06:10] :
That's interesting because I mean, if I listen to both your stories that are on how you are drawn to acting and how you ended up going there and you are both dreamers, you are both believers in your own way. I mean you believe in your own vision, your own world, you know. But then it happens that you ended up becoming, uh, husband and wife. So what do you think brought that chemistry though? I mean?
MOTLATSI MAFATSHE [06:32] :
Not husband and wife. You’re marrying us now Really.
GABISILE TSHABALALA [06:34] :
We’re not married. Take a sip.
JOHN MANYIKE [06:34] :
Is that something that's gonna happen or work in progress or?
MOTLATSI MAFATSHE [06:32] :
Um Gabi? They’re asking a question Legend.
GABISILE TSHABALALA [06:50] :
Ha-Uh. No. I can't answer that.
MOTLATSI MAFATSHE [06:52] :
Why?
GABISILE TSHABALALA [06:50] : Because I'm not the one who marries me. Two men asking a woman, that question. Focus guys.
JOHN MANYIKE [07:01] :
No I thought he would quickly interject and say no don't worry, good things come to those who wait.
MOTLATSI MAFATSHE [07:08] :
Good things come to those who wait. Look I mean, we've been together for quite some time. Personally, I would like that to happen, but you also come from an extreme past that we kind of have to deal with, you know, and, and, but the plan would not be great, you know, but I think God knows all things.
GABISILE TSHABALALA [07:33] :
God doesn’t just marry people you know, but ok.
JOHN MANYIKE [07:36] :
I mean, somebody has to pose a question you know so, but yes she’s talking the truth.
MOTLATSI MAFATSHE [07:55] :
No, but to be honest, we're hoping that's gonna happen.
JOHN MANYIKE [07:59] :
There's a reason why I'm asking that, because I mean if you're both actors and, and one day it so happens, I mean, and that's why I asked the question the way I did. And, and if it does happen that you decide to go ahead and given the history where you're coming from, um, it can be quite a complex thing, especially from a financial point of view and how you navigate finances in a family, especially if maybe it happens with one of you or both if you come with children from the previous life, I call it balance brought forward. Balance brought forward can be complex. So have you thought about these things, that in the event that we were too, you know go there and becoming an item, how, how would that work in your mind when you imagine it? How would that work?
MOTLATSI MAFATSHE [08:47] :
Legend?
GABISILE TSHABALALA [08:48] :
How would it work? I don't know, I think you know what I'm it's my first time dating as a mother. So it's very difficult to answer a question that I've never even been in. So if maybe this was like my second relationship with kids, I would know what to do you know? So I've never been married again, and yes, of course it's conversations that we do sometimes have, but how do I see it unfolding? I see me doing things for my children, right? Because I don't wanna find, I don't wanna find myself on ‘Rea Tsotela’ or on ‘Kukithi La’ you know? I think I'd like my, my, and I think it's something that we've spoken about that, if we do decide to take the next the next steps, I want to buy my children their own home, you know, our marital home wouldn't be their home for me, I would want them to have their own home, you know, and have their own stuff under their own names, you know? Yeah so that there's no complications going forward because geez.
MOTLATSI MAFATSHE [10:16] :
Because it can get very hectic and Gabi is right with the shows she’s mentioned because you know, as black people, we, we don't, I think parents have this notion that it's a family home and then later the children grow up. I mean given mine and Gabi’s situation where there’s Lefatsi and there’s … I think it's only fair that the kids have their own comforts and that they also have freedom. When they’re at our house, it’s our house right? But, if anything happens, if we pass away, they need to know that they've got something that they also, they aren’t fighting over anything as children because, this one has this surname and that one has that surname you know, umm, maybe when we have our child together with Gabi they will have their own umm, property. So in terms of finances and I think it's important to be, to be, to be individuals, but still have a pot where we’ll be like, Ok, we are coming in like this, but I can't stop Gabi from making her own money, you know, 'cause I, I would love it to propel, uh, you know, create old brands, create her own businesses, you know, I think would be unfair to take that away from her, this is my opinion, you know? And I think once we create our things, then we can share them. Even mine, there’s nothing wrong you know ladies like to dip into different pots, you know what's, what's yours is yours. What’s mine is ours.
GABISILE TSHABALALA [12:12] :
Yeah, that's how it is. But you know the reality that we, we face as women and women that come with children into a relationship or marriage is that and it's sometimes it's not even from the husband side of things, but the family side of things then they like, yeah these aren’t our biological children etc. So I wouldn't want my children to go through that and then not knowing how we got those things together and coming to a family home, I actually experienced that with my grandmother. She's 1, smart woman. So the ,the home that she has built for us, nobody can sell it. I don't know what will it is maybe you guys from Old Mutual can explain what it is, but none of us can sell it. You know, it's under all of us. And if we're gonna have children, then they come and yeah, but so no one believes it's a family home. So yeah, and I think maybe for us it was easier because we're all from the same name, clan, but I wouldn't want my children to struggle because of that.
JOHN MANYIKE [13:24] :
You know, I think this is such an important conversation to have because I think you represent a lot of young couples who want to get married, not only young couples, I mean there are people who are seasoned adults if I may call it that. They want to get married and they know they have children, but they never have a conversation about how is it going to work practically. Yes, we love each other, but then there's children that we need to consider. And, and, sometimes when this conversations don't happen, you have a crisis once you move in together because you never discussed it. How important do you think it is to have this open conversation? I'm glad you did say, you know, you've had a chat about this kind of thing. How important do you think it is for, for couples who are thinking one day they might decide to take the next step to have a conversation about money, particularly around children, the parenting of children, the financial support that will be given to children. Who's going to be responsible for school fees? Are you paying for your own or are you paying for, for all our kids? And how important do you think is that conversation?
MOTLATSI MAFATSHE [14:31] :
You know, I think that's one of the most important things beyond love. Because you see a lot of people, they concentrate on the honeymoon stage, love, but they're not practical in how we're going to manage your life right? And then there comes a point where reality lands and so if you don't talk about it, you are actually risking that love. So you, a lot of people, they actually split up because of that subject matter, right? That's where conflict starts happening. So the love, dating thing is as important as that conversation, you know, because when it’s passed, we still have to live with each other right? I don't know your dreams. Maybe I no, I want to be a housewife, and they’re expecting you to contribute something to the home. So those conversations there, they're very important before you even take the next step. Don’t rush to get married. And then what? You understand that? So for me, it's it's crucial that you analyse and, and in fact, run your lives like a business. Yes and say ok, I'm, I'm sitting down with my lawyer, you bring your lawyer. How are we going to navigate this thing? You have children. I've got children. Are we going to split that? It's very important because if you don't, then you're going to compromise your love.
JOHN MANYIKE [15:59] :
That's true.
MOTLATSI MAFATSHE [15:59] :
You know? And then at the end you end up hating each other.
JOHN MANYIKE [16:01] :
You know Gabi, I mean you said something before you end, you said something profound about yes, even if I do get married, but I want to make sure that my children have a home. Gabi?
GABISILE TSHABALALA [16:10] :
I wanted to say that I think, I don't wanna say most women, but women do see it, it's just that sometimes you, you have expectations and when they not met, then you get upset and there's certain things that you see in the dating stage happening and you think marriage is gonna change? No. You already see how this guy is, and how he's treating you when dating, so what the hell makes you think that he's going to change in marriage? You know so we also need to just be real about, about things like, I can see when we get to a restaurant, this guy was struggling to find 10 rand and you’re going to end up going 50/50 all the time, you know, and just take that and run with it. Yeah.
JOHN MANYIKE [17:00] :
Yeah. So, so, so what are the risk of unmet expectations? I mean you said something like that, but like you're going to you're going to get married, but you've never discussed what your expectations are. But the expectations are there. When those expectations are not met, then you start saying, what’s with this guy? Because sometimes we just assume that you’re supposed to, but shouldn't we have an open conversation about it? I mean, how crucial is it to discuss each other's expectations if you decide to get married?
MOTLATSI MAFATSHE [17:31] :
I think it's imperative to have the, the uncomfortable conversation you know? So, so that you can decide, am I going to stick around or I'm not? You know, and, and they're very, they're very difficult to have. You don't want to go I’m thinking of the kids so I think you should be bringing in all the money, I don’t want to because where do you think we must get the money? Let’s use up your inheritance, do you understand that? Then what do you bring on the table? You know, what do you bring on the table? Yeah and then the ladies say, I am the table, so you kind of have to be real. And I guess also it's important to learn from our elders especially our generation. We are custom making our lives and we’re everywhere, just trying to figure it all out. You get it, then you want to go back, but then you also want to cancel the way things were done before. So as a result we’re confused right? But I honestly believe that if we go according to our culture, all those answers will be met you know? We'll navigate how wealth was dealt with, how expectations were met. Why were they met? So ultimately, as I'm, I'm saying, if you go to our culture, we'll find the answers but if we dabble in this and that, obviously we’re going to be dealing with lawyers and become a corporation.
JOHN MANYIKE [19:14] :
So one of the challenges for the people in that situation will decide, Ok, fine, I'm going to get married. I just want to find out what is your opinion about the role of your families in your relationship? How involved do you think your family should be in your financial affairs or any other matter for that reason.
GABISILE TSHABALALA [19:43] :
I think from my side, we are starting our own family, so nobody else should be in part of it. No one must get involved in it. That's how I see it. It's me and you. It's our finances. Regardless if his mother needs something, it doesn’t matter, it must come through me, and if anyone from my family needs money, let them come to you. It shouldn’t be conversations held in corners.
MOTLATSI MAFATSHE [20:11] :
I agree with her because when we start something nobody must come and interfere into our pot. But you remember I said, Gabi, she was allowed to have a business and have her own money and I can’t dictate what she does with that money, it’s extremely unfair right? And on my end as well, she can’t dictate, but our joint finances nobody else must tell us, and you have to be honest, ‘Look here’s 100 million’, and she also brings what she brings. My mum can't come and tell us what to do you understand? But for example, my families wealth, Gabisile can’t tell Mafatshe what to do with it. And just as I can't go to the Tshabalala’s and go hey! You see? But our joined money nobody can tell us, I have to consult with them. I think it's only fair. In that regard.
JOHN MANYIKE [21:34] :
Ok, let's talk about lessons learned from where you've been relationship wise, before we get into your acting and lessons there, but what lessons have we learned of where you're coming from? Because we learn, but we know it in future I mean, this is how I'm gonna do things differently. What would be those lessons we've done for the relationships that didn't turn out the way you would have?
GABISILE TSHABALALA [22:01] :
So I've always believed in transparency, you know, and I've always believed in putting things in one pot. If we are one and we are building, then I believe in us putting things in one pot. But I'm also learning that because now it was easier to do that because everything that was with me, I got it with that person. Now when I'm meeting a new person and we've got different people coming with them as well, I need to look out for my own, you know? And sometimes, like I said, I guess it comes with you, you see how your person is, you analyse them, don't have any expectations because sometimes when you do, you asking a person something that they are not even capable of doing or they, they don't know how to do it. So what I've learned is that say, know how to stand on your own as a woman. Know how to, to stand on your own. Mmm.
JOHN MANYIKE [23:07] :
Lessons learned? Past relationships.
MOTLATSI MAFATSHE [23:10] :
Umm. Lessons learned? I don't know. I think, I think we need to take time, you know, and, and understand why we make certain decisions right? I've, I've learned that you shouldn't rush into things you know? I mean, I got married at an early age and there's nothing wrong with that you know? But I just believe in everything must be done right, you know, and, and if I jump, you jump, you know? If we’re doing this we’re doing it and if we aren’t then we aren’t you know, so, so it's important to take your time in decision making. I think communication is important you know, that's one thing that I can safely say. The minute you stop communicating, you are creating a flop. You know, so whatever that we do moving forward, living and connecting, trying to blend our families, communication, communication, communication, lack of that, we're just creating the same disaster we probably come from.
JOHN MANYIKE [24:49] :
You know, what inspires me about, about the two of you is the fact that even if you know you come from marriage, that didn't turn out to be what you have, I mean, it didn't work, you still believe that no, you still believe in marriage. You have not written off the possibility of getting married you or is something you're exploring but, but having said that, have you ever thought of or do you ever discuss where you've been to say, hey, you know what? I've been, this is what I learned or this didn't work. I mean, do you ever discuss that we all make mistakes, even for a marriage to break, it takes two people to break a marriage. I mean, so you play a role, they also play their role, whether this one trigger the other is another is neither here nor there. But I mean, have you ever discussed some of those past mistakes or challenges you had before and say, how do we do things differently so that we don't repeat the same thing, Gabi?
GABISILE TSHABALALA [22:01] :
I think we have? Umm, we have touched base on some of them but we haven't really gone in deeper. Yeah.
MOTLATSI MAFATSHE [25:59] :
I think we have. We have, and it's an ongoing conversation. You know, it's like, and I, I think it's a conversation that never ends right? So, like we said, it's important to communicate, communicate, communicate and communicate even the, the uncomfortable truths and be clear in our decision making as we move here, right, But I, I think we. are trying, I mean, it’s nice in the beginning then the reality comes in. We have to ask ourselves how we’re going to handle things and I think that's where we are, you know, because there's we have businesses that we’ve organized together we make music together, TV together. So it's, it's a conversation that's gonna last for long you understand?
JOHN MANYIKE [27:02] :
I wanna get into the music stuff that you guys are, you know, are venturing into. But before that, I mean, have, have you guys thought of speaking to a financial advisor? Because, uh, at some point, I mean, if you're talking financial planning, there’s the topic of a will, there’s the topic of life coverage, should, I mean, anything happened to either of you that, uh, you know, the children are well taken care of because unfortunately for a lot of black people when we thinking insurance, we're only thinking funeral cover, and then we bury you, have an after tears and then after that then what? Then there's nothing for the kids. I mean, is it something you've, that has crossed your mind or is it something you have started on?
GABISILE TSHABALALA [27:43] :
Personally, it's something that has crossed my mind and especially when you are like dating and doing business together and it's something that I've, I've told him about that if anything had to happen to you, I'm at a loss especially for women, you know, the, the guys side of the family always it's like this. Most of the times they always the problem you know where let's say now we are building together, we do music together, I buy a teaspoon, I buy whatever, if anything had to happen to him, God forbid I can never go to his house and say, this is my spoon, I bought that curtain, I can never do that because firstly, we're not married, but yet they don't know what I came in with into the house, and whose house was it? His. If I buy a cup, I can’t go fetch it and I didn’t keep a receipt because it was good at the time decorating the house, you know? So those conversations are very important and also speaking to a financial advisor and having those covers, they’re very important, even while dating they very, very important and especially because we do business together and all these things, yeah.
MOTLATSI MAFATSHE [29:03] :
You remember I said we must always go to our elders, you know, and we shouldn’t pick and choose what we’re taking and what we’re throwing out. I think with dating it's the different case you know, and I'd say it's advisable to take it easy when, if you’re dating, don’t buy a TV.
JOHN MANYIKE [29:32] :
But life must continue.
MOTLATSI MAFATSHE [29:33] :
No life must continue then. It's important. It's important, for example like you see Gabi has a plan to have a home for her children. I think, I love that independence right, so that she won’t have any issues with things that may have happened while we we’re still dating then everybody gets clear you understand? The only time you have a, right or want to claim is when you're married, but if you're not, you’re just figuring the person out, you’re freelancing. You’re on trial still. The same with myself, I can’t go and claim things from Gabisile’s house it doesn't make sense.
GABISILE TSHABALALA [30:27] :
No, I think maybe we misunderstood each other. For example, if I bought him a pair of jeans and then the next thing something happens to him, his family won’t tell me to come fetch it because they know I bought it for him. In fact, they're not even going to want you there.
MOTLATSI MAFATSHE [30:44] :
Will you go asking for those jeans back?
GABISILE TSHABALALA [30:44] :
No, no it’s an example. And, and during that time you contributed so much, whatever that you did. Yes, maybe it wasn't spoons or whatever, but anything that I've put into the relationship, there's people that date for years that even stayed together but they’re not married and I think that's where the problem comes with cohabitation and luckily we don't do it but I think I'm wise enough to know that, I would never do it because I know it's always the woman that suffers, you know, and it's in our nature to nurture anything that you get into, it's in our nature to come in and say I don’t like what you have on and I buy you something or there aren’t teaspoons in the house, what do we do when visitors come? They don't look at the man, they look at the woman, right. And you’re just dating at that time. So you're going to want to fill in here and there, even if it's not big things, and as much as it's not big things, you are working backwards because you’re dating you can't go and claim those spoons all in the name of you having children.
MOTLATSI MAFATSHE [31:56] :
You know my thing is why are you taking them back because they were a gift.
GABISILE TSHABALALA [30:44] :
Because you're gone. I was buying them for your home, right and for us to be together. So now when you’ve passed on, your family is going to take those things.
MOTLATSI MAFATSHE [32:08] :
You’re taking them back?
GABISILE TSHABALALA [32:11] :
Yes. Who are they meant to go to?
MOTLATSI MAFATSHE [32:12] :
Why? Why does it matter? We're not we're not married yet. Yeah. So you don't have anything that's combining you.
GABISILE TSHABALALA [32:25] :
Makes the woman work backwards and she has children. They won’t ask me if I came with spoons and then allow me to take them back to use with my children you know, so we don't look at those things as women. We're just like, ok I’m in love, I’ll buy a painting, the house is too empty, let me just buy a painting. And theres nothing wrong.
MOTLATSI MAFATSHE [32:45] :
Is it not a gift?
GABISILE TSHABALALA [32:45] :
It's a gift for us, that’s why I’m in the relationship.
MOTLATSI MAFATSHE [32:50] :
Right, so, so if, if a woman gifts you, it's not yours, it's ours.
GABISILE TSHABALALA [33:02] :
No, I think you’re misunderstanding.
JOHN MANYIKE [33:02] :
So, so let me come in here because I, I hear where she's coming from. It might be maybe she used the example about a teaspoon or jeans and soon. Here's the thing, uh, if let's assume you're living together, yes and you are accumulating assets together, one buys a TV, the other buys a bed, one buys electricity and the other pays for or buys groceries and so forth.
GABISILE TSHABALALA [33:32] :
And you’re just dating at the time.
JOHN MANYIKE [33:33] :
Remember these are, you are sharing financial responsibilities, in fact even if the other one is the one that's paying water and lights, but the other one is actually buying the furniture and things like that, the one that bought furniture is thinking I bought this thing. But you were able to buy them because somebody else was paying for water and lights. So therefore to say these are mine, you are being selfish because what about the fact that the other one was, was paying for water and lights.
GABISILE TSHABALALA [33:59] :
You were helping each other.
JOHN MANYIKE [34:00] :
So which brings in the question of having a will. You with me? Because a will stipulates that ok, should anything happen to me, this and this must go to this one, this teaspoon must go to this one. This furniture, this TV goes to whoever, because it neutralizes things but if you leave that to families to decide, there won’t be fairness. Is that what you were saying?
GABISILE TSHABALALA [34:25] :
That’s exactly what I'm saying.
MOTLATSI MAFATSHE [34:28] :
I, I agree with that. I agree with that. But there's no but. Because it does happen that people share earnings right? And I feel and believe it's only fair that when you share a living environment I pay for this, you pay for that now we are sharing. Even though you’re not married it's only fair to go you know what? Let’s go 50/50. If ever, because you aren’t married to go 50/50.
JOHN MANYIKE [35:01] :
But who's going to know 50/50?
GABISILE TSHABALALA [35:03] :
Exactly! It’s not written anywhere, therefore…
MOTLATSI MAFATSHE [35:06] :
That's where I'm going. It's only fair to go, let’s go 50/50 with this and that, and that because you’re still a corporation. You can write what’s the agreement if that is the case, however even if you’re married you need to go through that process, where you, you stipulate how you want things to be.
JOHN MANYIKE [35:30] :
Let me follow up with you Motlatsi so if you're not married and you're living together because we know this happens, but there, there's a lot of cohabitation that happens there people say they’re test driving the relationship, they test drive and, have you seen people test driving with the car from the driving school, which car do they buy? Do they buy the same one? Anyway, but that's not the issue. You know, so now the question is if you have cohabiting, how are you going to make sure that it's documented?
MOTLATSI MAFATSHE [36:10] :
No you need that lawyer. You need that will. If you’re cohabiting. You need to be clear. Anything can happen now.
GABISILE TSHABALALA [36:20] :
I think even if you aren’t cohabiting, like for example, we're doing business together, right? That will is still very important.
JOHN MANYIKE [36:30] :
Beautiful, beautiful. Love it. You know why? Because and, and that's where I was going as well. You guys have now started and are going into business together. You know, honeymoon and business don’t go hand in hand? This is a business transaction. Ok, others will argue no, but even marriage is a business transaction. Well, it's actually an estate plan depending on how you decide to get married. But how, how, how are you structuring this partnership with your music currently? Who's strong at managing finance? Who's handling what? What are your roles in this business.
GABISILE TSHABALALA [37:07] :
So remember when we started um, Mo is more of a talker, no, he's he agrees with the mouth and sometimes maybe he'll have more money and say ok no, I’ll invest more, and I'm like mm-hmm no I don’t do business like that. Business is business. Let’s leave dating out of it, forget that I'm your girlfriend. Business is business. If there's anything that you need to do that's going to grow our music I’m going to go 50/50 with you, and that's how it's always been like so when we started. If he had to invest 10 rand, then I’ll invest 5 rand so it’ll be 5/5 you see? So those are the things that made me want to get a will to say that if anything happens to you, I don't have proof to say hey! the T-shirts that we bought, I was also part of it because I know I'm going to lose out, you know so um yeah with business. I don't like mixing it up with dating.
MOTLATSI MAFATSHE [38:09] :
You know what? And for the for the sake of, of the conversation, so that it's even more interesting. It's a, you know guys have it hard. To make the conversation interesting, so you see, we have to date at the end of the day, we have to, when you, when you go out, the guy has to be the guy, right when you go to the shows, uh, where we are both performing, I still have to, I'm with my girlfriend but it's still business, right? So it’s a very thin line right? And where, where I think it's like unfair because never mind, I'm playing it by the book, right? Petrol, where’s the petrol slip, the food, but also in the relationship I must be active, right? And so you kind of, it's very difficult to play by the book and it's not that I’m all talk, because if I were to be like, Gabisile, I paid for the petrol, I bought food, I did this and that then it makes this thing not so fun anymore, you understand that right? However, for example, we've got to show that we are working on. From a business level Gabisile’s got a production company, I've got a production company, we're co-producing it. Whatever that she does in a production company, is hers, I don't interfere with that. And then it's safer that way because then legally we are, we are protected. When it comes to our music, Gabisile you get your cut, it’s your cut. Motlatsi I get my cut, it's my cut, right? But Motlatsi’s cut shouldn't be our cut here you understand what I'm saying? And, and, and also, let me leave it there and not say too much. I’m afraid of going too deep into it. It needs to be written in a book.
JOHN MANYIKE [40:01] :
You know how important this conversation is, and trust me, trust me, guys, it might sounds like we're just having a conversation but there are people who are getting catching some nuggets out of this because we are in a relationship, we're doing business together. Do you want to have a, a fine line or do you want a solid line? I mean, if something is in writing and it's a business transaction, there shouldn't be blurred lines we are in business. But it brings then it brings me to the next question. There's a difference between people who are doing business where they are just dating, and one way you decide to take the relationship to the next level where you decide you want to get married. Because then it brings the question of what type of marriage? Is it in community of property or is it out of community of property? Or is it an anti-nuptial contact with accrual meaning, from the day you get married, whatever you accumulate together it's joined, but whatever you've accumulated, whether debts or assets before marriage they belong to the past. Is it something you've thought about for if we were to get married, what type of marriage would we enter to or we are not there yet?
GABISILE TSHABALALA [41:15] :
I don't think, well, personally, I don't think we're there yet, but I think it would be great to, especially if it's something that we're looking into to be more educated about it because we just hear about these where lobola was paid or whatever, then automatically you are in community, you know, but we need to understand it. For what is in community, what is a prenup, what is what is, what is all these things and and make a very sound decision on that. Yeah.
JOHN MANYIKE [41:46] :
So what would be ideal in your view as a man?
MOTLATSI MAFATSHE [41:51] :
I don’t want to implicate myself, whatever I say or don't say
JOHN MANYIKE [42:02] :
Can be held against you.
MOTLATSI MAFATSHE [42:03] :
I don't want that problem. However, I believe that we are human and we need to be fair and I want to go the traditional route because the elders will inform me this is how best to do it right? Umm, but I don’t want to marry her and bring her into my family, anything happens to us or me and her, I don’t want her to remain behind and struggle. When I say that I love her and want to take her as my wife, I also want to make your life better, whether we make it or we don't. Yes we won’t make it make, I want to say it in good English.
GABISILE TSHABALALA [42:57] :
He doesn’t know English
MOTLATSI MAFATSHE [42:57] :
Don’t make me look bad. But we won't make it out alive anyway, right? Either of us, our offsprings but not stuff, there is more important, you know, and, and, and, and I do believe that we need that counselling. We need that financial advice, advice, yeah, to make the right decisions. Not based on emotion, yeah. And, and feeling ok, it’s not gonna work we must be clear if we break up this is what will happen. Alright. Why? What are the benefits of it? And, and be clear because our situation is unique. We sort of also have to custom make it, yeah, for our unique situation and our unique generations and offspring.
JOHN MANYIKE [43:47] :
Ok, none of us are perfect, right? We make mistakes. You are in the industry, you're acting and you know, or it's depending on gigs, it's on and off and all that. Well, the question is directed to both. What is the worst financial decision you've ever made that you'll regret in some but you learn from?
GABISILE TSHABALALA [44:11] :
Maybe you could take that one.
MOTLATSI MAFATSHE [44:14] :
Though I just spoke, maybe take it to balance the conversation.
GABISILE TSHABALALA [44:18] :
I don't think of one now, no.
MOTLATSI MAFATSHE [44:14] :
I can think of a lot of mistakes in my life, I can't think of it right now. I know I've lost a lot of money. I've made a lot of money too.
JOHN MANYIKE [44:38] :
Let let me put the question differently maybe this might help. When it comes to finance? What would you do differently now, knowing what you know now about finances and knowing what you know based on your own experience compared to how you started in the industry? What would you do differently?
MOTLATSI MAFATSHE [44:14] :
Less debt. So luckily I grew up, I mean, back home, we, we had a house. My dad passed away and we lost that house. We had to go back to the hood, start from scratch. So growing up my mom for the longest time worked very hard to get out of debt and I remember the minute she did, she cut up all those cards, right? I'll never, yeah, good. I'll never be tempted because that that date will keep on accumulating and it doesn't accumulate because you want it to, it accumulates because you got a need to close this and that right, so, and then for the longest time, I, I was able to live without debt, right? But the older you grow, then you're like, ah, you actually need this and that you need that account oh right. So moving forward, cancellation of debt live, live a simple and basic you know sometimes people they live beyond their means you know they want to get the biggest amazing car the time you don't have a, a house to live in or you are renting unnecessarily and you want to go live in Sandton because status requires it but you can rather buy a 4 room house at a very easy rate. Five years from now, you’re done paying it. Now you can have, you know, property taking you know small steps to grow you know? I don’t know if I’m answering your question.
JOHN MANYIKE [46:53] :
You’re spot on. In your case what would you do differently?
GABISILE TSHABALALA [46:57] :
I think with me as well. If possible, try and buy everything cash
JOHN MANYIKE [47:03] :
I like what you're saying, but I also want to challenge it. Yes, they say cash is king. What would you say if I said there are wealthy people who make money out of that? They just know how to use debt? That that is not a negative thing. It's how you use it. Yeah. That you can actually create what without using your own money? What would you do?
GABISILE TSHABALALA [47:27] :
I mean, I'd love to learn that. I'd love to learn how to do that.
MOTLATSI MAFATSHE [44:14] :
That yeah, yeah. That's what I'm I'm, I'm learning as well, you know, to go, all right, how did I mean having a business now I'm like, OK, it's it's it's a new level that I'm at and learning and obviously we make mistakes here and there like on the one hand I have to pay tax, it’s a lot right, So. I think our system. Our education system is taking us backward. What if you want to be progressive. Why is it that we can't learn these things in school when we have the time to absorb information so that you can use it practically, Why? Why must we go and learn stupid things that we won’t use.
GABISILE TSHABALALA [48:19] :
You must go make a mistake first.
MOTLATSI MAFATSHE [48:23] :
Why must I? I learned the mistake now. So that's why now I'm like, let me just make all the mistakes so that my children, I'm like, ok, guys, that one, we don't do it according to this way, that’s the booklet I'm giving you right. Because we didn't have it, our grandparents didn't have it, you know and so these teachings are quite important to talk about, you know, that we have our own handbook you know, to, to give out. So that we don’t make the same mistake over and over that other people have done. And you know, we are very fortunate today we went to school at least, and our legends have been in the game, they didn't go to school, they didn't create businesses. They didn't also start playing in the industry. We always talk Gabisile and I and I say, ‘Honey, you can't be an actor and not be a producer, how are you going to survive? Because you'll be constantly waiting for someone to give you a job, when you could be creating your own stuff, and if you are an artist, create your own stuff, yeah, if I’m not available, I’m not available, you know what I'm saying?
JOHN MANYIKE [49:32] :
Before we close I just want to take this one more question. How different is the music industry from acting? I know they are both creative arts, How different are the two careers of being in musical and acting?
GABISILE TSHABALALA [49:53] :
I'd like to compare music like uh I think a security company. You know in security when you. When you're starting off, you need to spend so much. But once it's running properly now it's working for you. So I feel like in music it's like that. We're in the beginning, you are working your butt off, yeah, but then at the end it pays off. In the acting space, I think you must do it because you love it. That's how I see it. Like I, I, it's more of, I mean, it's not like it's not like music where there's royalties, you can, you know, unfortunately in South Africa we don't have royalties or where, you know, that no, I can just get a gig. I can, umm, I and act there and act there and act there. Unless if you've been in the game for very long, like he's very fortunate to do that. But it's also difficult because it's like, no, but you working with us and this is where your bread is buttered. So wait, we'll see. We'll see if we can let you go, you know, and yes sometimes it can negotiate your way out. But when you're starting off, if you’re working for ‘Generations’ you can only be on that set and when you tell them that ‘Skeem Saam’ has called you they refuse and they’re like listen, wait. Now you can't go make money there and there and there. But with music, you know what I can just come up with a gig quickly and just go sing on stage, get paid and leave.
JOHN MANYIKE [51:33] :
OK for you?
MOTLATSI MAFATSHE [51:35] :
I think they're both different industries, but at the end of the day they're like a product where you want to sell something. That's why I said earlier on you have to be a producer, you have to be a creator. Being a creator means you have to be the investor you have to find the money of, of that product and so that you'll be able to go sell right so the acting business it’s not just acting but so if you're a producer, you can just shoot your own movie with your own money and then go sell your product like anybody who sells ice lollies, makes the lollies, sells them and makes money, so it's how you look at it. So it's important to be knowledgeable about how what is your role and what kind of a stakeholder are you in the game, right? Actor comes last, right. So I'm saying you need to be the one who creates the work right. And same applies to music, because if you're just an artist who records and now youhappy because you’re famous, no be the one who invests the money. Create your own studio. Know about the law of, of music right. Create your own brand. We're very lucky because we have our own brand and following right. So people are able to, those who like our music, able to buy into it. Our it's so we're fortunate, right that ok we don't necessarily need a major. I mean, we're celebrating the other time we've reached a million streams with one of our songs that we released now without a major backing. Before that we couldn't even reach 20,000, now we are on a million streams. So now at least we're moving without needing that major, but only because we invested money into it. And the returns will come in later. The bookings are coming so nice. You know, we stand a better chance now. So it's, it's how you look at it, whether you look at it as an artist or looking at it as a producer. You got to be a producer to, to survive otherwise, if you’re only an artist, you’ll be fighting and they don’t respect you and they won’t call you.
GABISILE TSHABALALA [54:15] :
Yeah, but like I always say that that's why it's important to go to school for it, because then your, your mind is broader. You're not just looking at yourself as an actor because that’s when you start fighting for scraps but when you go to school, then you are taught about editing, you're talking about directing, you're taught about producing and you know that if I get stuck here, I can get into producing, or if I'm not producing then I can direct or I can create my own, whatever you know, yeah, so people mustn't look at the industry and just say as fine, I can also act. If there’s no acting work then what? And that's why you go to school if there isn’t money for school, there are workshops that teach these things. Get into it with the knowledge and that's why in music you hear them fight about Maphorisa not paying them, no, you went in there not knowing you know how much money. You know, and we see it with us from transport to getting the song out, from writing and then you get there assuming that just because he wrote you a song, you get excited sing and think you’ll be famous. When Maphorisa buys a car you get upset, thinking he took your money. He went into the into the studio, the equipment, you have no idea how much everything is you know, so get in it knowing. Go to school.
JOHN MANYIKE [55:46] :
Ok in conclusion, finally, if you were to encourage other people out there who are want to venture into, into the industry, whether it's music or acting or be it maybe venturing into a relationship. You know, you're in business with your partner and you know, how should what would your word of encouragement be? That will be our last, let’s start with you.
GABISILE TSHABALALA [56:13] :
Go to school. Well, the relationship, I mean, like we, we discussed earlier that it's very important to, umm, talk about uncomfortable conversations. Yeah, talk about your expectations, you know, umm, and sometimes, yes, you can talk about the expectations, but also look at the actions that happen in the relationship and stop dreaming or no, I know when he's rich, he's gonna do this to me. If he can’t share 20 rand with you, what makes you think he’ll share 200 with you? Even worse 2 million you know, so yeah don't, don't, don't be lost in the love. Have those uncomfortable conversations. And if you guys are building together, come while dating get a an advisor to know if things hit the fan, yeah, you are both safe.
MOTLATSI MAFATSHE [57:17] :
Know if things hit the fan, you're screwed. Yeah, that's my advice. So let it not reach there, that fan. And Gabi is very right, you know, take advice umm, be honest, love loud, learn loud, forgive loud, but don’t avoid it
GABISILE TSHABALALA [57:47] :
Yeah, don't avoid it.
MOTLATSI MAFATSHE [57:48] :
It will mess things up. No, but I'd say, information knowledge about money is an important need for a black child you know, and don’t get confused by a lot of things. I think it's important one, for women to also make their money so that they feel their power that they need right and they're not dependent on a man who make them worthy right? At the same time, it's important for also men to take care of women, and it comes easy from us and so let's do, right. But also because you are doing it doesn't mean you must abuse her you understand me? So let’s create partnership if ever you want to get into a relationship, be fair. You know, umm, unfortunately we live in a new age where we must have this conversations. Yeah, you know, and not only for ourselves, but for our children. So that's I guess that's my parting shot.
JOHN MANYIKE [59:01] :
Wow. Well, Motlatsi, Gabisile thank you so much. I think it has been a wonderful conversation. Very constructive.
MOTLATSI MAFATSHE [59:10] :
We even finished all the water.
JOHN MANYIKE [59:17] :
I'm telling you. I mean, I can tell you now there was no acting in the conversations that we were having today, and I trust that people who follow the podcast will pick up quite a number of things. Well, there you have it. I think it was real. I think it was real and most people I'm sure will relate to the challenges that we always need to anticipate and plan around. The problem is not planning, especially when you are a young couple and you are going to be raising or you're coming from previous relationship, maybe your return soldier, you want to try again and conversations about children are very important. How are we going to handle finances? Who's going to be responsible for what? If you are going to be having a child of your own, how are you going to deal with that instead of debating about my children and your children are fighting with our children. You’re on the money.