Old Mutual On The Money
Old Mutual On The Money
Fifi Cooper: Life, Lessons & Legacy in Music | On The Money Podcast
Private jets, packed schedules, and the full superstar experience – on the surface, Fifi Cooper had it all. But when she checked her bank balance, the numbers didn’t match the grind.
In this episode of On the Money, the award-winning musician joins Old Mutual’s Group Head of Financial Education, John Manyike, to reflect on the hard lessons she learnt about money, management, and the disconnect between how success looks and what it actually pays.
She shares her experience of being signed to a record label, the assumptions that came with a flashy lifestyle, and why it’s crucial to look beyond the glitz and ask: What am I really earning for all this work?
This one’s for the dreamers, the doers, and anyone putting in the hours – make sure your numbers are working just as hard as you are.
On the Money is Old Mutual’s financial education podcast, where public figures and everyday people share their real stories about money – the good, the bad, and the unexpected.
Thanks for listening! Interested in getting more financial education? Visit our website for free resources. You can follow us on X, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube.
JOHN MANYIKE [00:07]
Welcome to the next episode of Old Mutuals On Th Money. Today I’m with someone that I think you’ll to hear from and there's none other than Fifi Cooper.I think it's one of those conversations I've always been looking forward to. Umm, because I don't know what I'm gonna ask her, but we shall see. How are you doing?.
FIFI COOPER [00:29]
Good how are you doing? Thank you for the invitation.
JOHN MANYIKE [00:31]
Yeah, I always want us to start from the beginning. Like literally where you grow up and where everything started. Yeah, maybe let's start there. Who is Fifi Cooper?
FIFI COOPER [00:43]
Yeah, Fifi Cooper is Refiloe Moeketsi all the way from Mafikeng and well known as Fifi Cooper on the streets, you know, multi award-winning artist, record label owner.
JOHN MANYIKE [00:59]
You are supposed to have that (makes sound)
FIFI COOPER [01:00]
So I grew up in Mafikeng, just growing up, you know, doing R&B, but obviously being surrounded by, you know, legends like HHP and Khuli Chana, I saw a gap that we don't have a female rapper that represents where we come from hence I took the opportunity to be the first lady of Motswako and represent Batswana from back home, rapping in Setswana. So yeah, that's who I am.
JOHN MANYIKE [01:23]
Speaking of which, you are one of the first few people to rap in Setswana when it was not like popular, you know, people were always speaking to English.
FIFI COOPER [01:34]
Definitely! But that's why I'm saying I'm very fortunate to have grown up in Mafikeng, you know, seeing HHP, seeing Morafe, Khuli , Mo Molemi, they're already out there. You know, I couldn't believe that as someone who comes from Mafikeng, I could end up being in Joburg, you know, when Jozi, when Tuks said “They’re going to Joburg City Lights” and we didn't understand that. We haven't been to Joburg so I wanted to see it for myself, you know, and yes, I was one of the, you know, few female rappers back in 2015, you know, who was the 1st to reach a million, the first to, you know, have a big album so it's such a blessing, I feel like, you know, I was called to be the musician that I am.
JOHN MANYIKE [02:17]
Beautiful. Now let's shake your family tree a bit yeah, talk us through your family tree from Mahikeng.
FIFI COOPER [02:23]
Yeah so, I’m the only girl at home, I’m the last born child I have two brothers.
JOHN MANYIKE [02:29]
Hold on! The only girl, last born? Yeah, OK, I get you now for a second I said OK, alright.
FIFI COOPER [02:34]
Yeah, and I was raised by a single parent, my mom, because my dad passed away when I was very young. And actually my dad was the music person at home. He used to play bass guitar. He used to have his own live band before and he actually was the first person that realized that I do have some, you know, talent because he used to force me to sing back in the days and I think that's when, you know, I started realizing maybe there's something special about my voice. So yeah, I'm from a very, you know, small family, yeah.
JOHN MANYIKE [03:09]
Yeah, but what was it like being raised by a single mum?
FIFI COOPER [03:12]
For me it was great to be able to see the challenges that she went through as a single mother, how strong she was I think now it shows in me; the independent, the independent woman that I am today, obviously I take it from my home seeing her being able to do everything for all of us, me and my brothers, you know, it was inspiring for me. But I knew that, you know anything and everything is possible as long as you put your mind to it. Sometimes complaining doesn’t help and saying, you know, I'm a single parent or what? I've never saw that, you know, that even when there were days where she probably didn't have money, I didn't see that because she, she would never show. Like she was, you know, always going out to work and making sure that, you know we were good at home.
JOHN MANYIKE [04:07]
So I mean, from the financial struggles that you witnessed growing up, you know, with your mom, what are some of those early lessons you learned about money, you know, because, you know, some people when they struggle and it's either they crack, or they crack it.
FIFI COOPER [04:23]
I think the first lessons for me was the importance of knowing that when money comes in, where does it need to go first you know, because sometimes when you get money, you get excited and you end up spending money on things that are not important. Like I'm saying, growing up watching my mom do everything for us, we knew that payday there’s groceries, everything is there, you know, school fees is paid. She used to make sure that everything important is paid first before everything that comes secondary.
JOHN MANYIKE [04:58]
Very, very, very. Important you know, starting with the most important things first before anything else. So you, you inspired by your dad? I mean, as you say, he had a, guitar and you know, that's, that's where the inspiration came from. I mean as a kid growing up I mean, at what point did you feel that actually, I can do this rap thing?
FIFI COOPER [05:20]
The rap thing came later on.
JOHN MANYIKE [05:26]
What do you mean you were singing something else before?
FIFI COOPER [05:27]
That I was an R&B singer, I come from the era of Beyonce you know, so I started singing at church and obviously when I would sing at church, I would see like how people get touched, you know, through an item that I'm rendering at church and I think from then I realized that maybe there's something special, you know, about my voice. And obviously hip hop, when I started doing hip hop, like I said, it was the fact that I'm challenging myself. I don't like being comfortable, you know, I like doing something out of my comfort zone because I believe that you can never know your power if you don't try other things, just don't be comfortable for too long. And my first song, Jay, my first hip hop song that I did, I performed it in Mafikeng at a place called Mabana Art Centre, where, you know, we used to go after school to do dance music and all of that. So they challenged me to do my own hip hop song. And the first time I performed it, I had a standing ovation and to me that was powerful. I knew that, you know, that means I'm on the right track. And standing for Mo Molemi in 2010 was a big deal, you know? He was very big at the in the game he's still very big in the game until today. And for me, that was one thing that showed me that you know what, you can really do it.
JOHN MANYIKE [06:46]
Yeah, so. You know, you grew up there you in Mahikeng and so school wise, I mean, where did you go to and, and, and how far did you go behind the desk?
FIFI COOPER [06:59]
I started at Diphetogo Primary and then I went to Batswana Commercial School because I wanted to learn about money, I knew that at some point I'm gonna be dealing with money, so I went to Batswana Commercial secondary school, finished my metric and I came to Joburg to fill out my studies, obviously, I went to Boston Media House, because I knew that at the time. I want to learn more about music, TV production and anything that has to do with entertainment, right? And in the process of, you know, being, moving from Mahikeng, coming to Joburg, I think that's when things started really happening for me. I had a, a Khuli Chana feature ‘Homonate ho ba wena’ at the time ‘, which was big, It was the first time me featured on a song that wins a SAMA, you know. So for me was like you like, I’ve arrived! And yeah, after, after Boston obviously I got signed, my first record deal, and yeah, that's when my first album just blew up, yeah.
JOHN MANYIKE [08:09]
So let's talk about your biggest achievements. I mean especially the ones that stick out for you. What would those be?
FIFI COOPER [08:16]
My biggest achievements till today I think, winning my own awards because I feel like that is also a reminder to you as an artist that what you're doing, you know the people are loving it and you're on the right track. So I think the night when I won 3 Metros it was a big deal for me. That was like the highlight of my life. Even my mum over the phone, she couldn't understand, she cried seeing me on the T.V and on the phone at the same time, you understand? So it was like what? This is crazy, you know? Because I think like when you start off as a musician, sometimes you don't really believe that you will get there. Sometimes you start off joking about, thinking, you know, it's just a hobby. But when things go well, then you get to actually realize what that this is really what I wanna do for the rest of my life. So yeah, that's How it happened for me.
JOHN MANYIKE [09:07]
So look, you, have a couple of big awards behind your name. Yeah, at your prime, but then you also had a bit of an anti-climax at some point, you don't have to mention people's names definitely and all that, but I mean, walk us through that experience what actually happened that brought a bit of an anti-climax to your career when you at your prime and boom, all of a sudden there were these challenges.
FIFI COOPER [09:30]
I think the, the, the biggest mistake that I did was that when I got signed, I didn't know what I'm getting myself into. Yeah, I wish I had like a lawyer, that would go through the contract with me, yes, the label gave me the lawyer, but you know, it wasn't my personal, yeah, it's not my personal lawyer, so I signed up for a lot of things that I didn't understand at the time that you know, when I started asking questions they were not giving me answers so.
JOHN MANYIKE [10:04]
And these questions were after signing?
FIFI COOPER [10:04]
Yeah, well, after signing, because obviously like when you're under a label and you see like you're doing 20 gigs in a month and the money that you get, you know, that month should make sense, you know, and things are not making sense royalty wise percentages. I didn't know that you know, when you do a song as a composer, you have this percentage, as a producer, you have this percentage I only learned those things after I signed, you know, I did a little bit of my homework myself, you know, going to all these websites like SAMRO to just get information because I think a lot of us as artists, we want people to tell us information all the time. We don't go out there and find out ourselves. Like all the information literally is on the internet. If you go on Google, if you wanna know anything about SAMRO, there are pages that you can find there that will give you insight, you know, on anything that you wanna learn on and that was my biggest mistake, not learning the business side before, you know, I get the deal. And obviously after I left the deal, now I went to being independent and it's super difficult when you're used to people doing everything for you and now you have to do everything yourself. Yeah. You have to get. Your own driver, get your own PR team, you know, own budget for music videos and so forth. But the beauty of it, it didn't take me time to actually realize that my biggest cheque literally came, you know, after the label when I was running my own thing, you know, that's when I understood that oh, sponsorship, they do pay. But when you do an ad for a TV, it's not PR they can use, you know? But like, that's when I only started to learn those things and really started to make money and where I can also be able to pay my team so yeah.
JOHN MANYIKE [11:58]
Yeah. Yeah, well, fortunately it's something that happened a while ago and that's a closed chapter. But I think, for our follower to learn and to appreciate the extent to which this thing was so major in your life, Yeah, if you don't mind, that just maybe high level, talk us through the number of gigs, for example, on average you do in a month and potentially what you think you would have made out of those gigs versus, the percentage you would get at the end of that month, I think this is meant for an aspiring artist out there who is listening to say actually, when you look at the rands and cents what a recoding label would give you versus potentially you could get if you were on your own of course barring the fact that you still need to establish yourself. Are you able to walk us through, just high level some of those numbers more or less.
FIFI COOPER [12:53]
I think obviously at my peak in 2015, I remember there was a point where we travelled, on private jets because we would go, yes, we would have a gig in Durban, Kimberly, Limpopo, Cape Town in one day, in one day. So obviously, like for me living that life, it gives me that impression of like having to do about 5 provinces if these people, they can, they can book a private jet, they can't be booking me for R10,000 like, you know, yeah, when you start looking at it that way and roughly monthly I would say at our peak we would do probably in the weekend, maybe Friday 4 gigs and Saturday 4, Sunday 4, Monday, Tuesday there’s mogodu Monday, Wednesday, but you know Women-Crush-Wednesday. So roughly we would, we’d do about 40 gigs a month sure you know. So now when I calculate I realise that from the 40K you obviously one gig is not 40K, but you know from those 40 gigs, if I could get maybe 10%, 10%, 10%10% from each gig, I would, you know, good money, but it wasn't like that a monthly I would get just money for rent, money for food and that’s it. Standard fee like R30 000 after. If you’re lucky, over Christmas they’d give you a bonus of 50K, but yeah you've been working like 24/7.
JOHN MANYIKE [14:45]
You know just judging from the number of gigs that were done and of course to book a private jet is not cheap, I would imagine surely you must have made close to a million, maybe almost in a week or so? And to end up at the end of the month with around 30 for me as a huge imbalance. You know the sad thing about being a worker? You work for 30 days. Hmm, but you only get paid one once, yeah. And you know what you get?
FIFI COOPER [15:20]
, And when the month ends and you’ve paid all of your bills and you’re left with nothing and then you wait for the next month end.
JOHN MANYIKE [15:25]
So now in terms of living arrangements, did you have to rent your own flat or when did they offer you a house or they give you a car, How, how does it work?
FIFI COOPER [15:34]
There was a house because I was the first artist before they signed other artists. So they gave me the house, which obviously had the studio and everything, you know, the photo booth. We wanted to do photo shoots and stuff like that.
JOHN MANYIKE [15:52]
I’m sure this must have been a mansion?
FIFI COOPER [15:52]
It was. My brother, as someone coming from Mafikeng obviously, I had arrived in Jozi. You know, but obviously when a lot of artists started coming, I'm a woman, sometimes I'm not comfortable with being, you know, around 10 guys that I don't know in the house. So I opted for finding my own space and when they were started, you know, buying other artists cars, fortunately love, at home they had already bought me a car so I never wanted them to buy me a car because my question was like, no, man, because when I keep asking questions, I get the answer, but we sponsored your Facebook with a million and it's like, you know, how does it work? Yeah. So I wanted to cut the cost that I felt that when I asked, they will give me, we did this, we did that. So I wanted to minus those things and do things myself and just wait for month end to get that fee so that when I argue, when I have an argument, I can be able to just say here’s the statement, this is the money that I've received from the label, you know. So yeah, that was basically it.
JOHN MANYIKE [17:07]
Goodness, so look, this is definitely something that I, I believe that any artist need to look out for when they sign a contract. But you mentioned at some point that they sponsored your, Facebook- the social media platform. Let's talk about ownership of your social media platform. Who owns that? When you sign them and is it something you negotiate or do they pose and say no, we're going to own social media platforms?
FIFI COOPER [17:33]
It comes with the contract. Hence I'm saying it's very important to really know what you're signing yourself into. Unfortunately, with my contract they had, they were supposed to have access of all my social media platforms and right now I've lost two of my social media accounts, that were really big when I left on Facebook, I had half a million in 2016. And on Twitter, I think I had about roughly 50K. And they took those pages when I left, you know, and I had to start from scratch because those are the things that I didn't know at the time. And, and that's one thing that I always, you know, also teach, you know, the artists that I come across to be aware of such things. And also we think that because we went to school, we understand lawyer English, you actually don't. You actually don't. You can read it yourself and think you understand, trust me get a lawyer. They will tell you that this contract renews itself automatically, and you’re looking at it to be three years or three albums there’s a clause hidden somewhere for an auto renewal and you know, if you don't know those things and if you don't ask people who know those things, you will find yourself in a trap, you know, in a in a very, very big dark hole that you wouldn't know how to come out of.
JOHN MANYIKE [19:03]
Talking about lawyers, I mean lawyers can start a whole contract with the first word being whereas and whereas is like, we've been talking, we’ve agreed on other things so that's why they start with ‘whereas’.
FIFI COOPER [19:18]
You see I’m friends with lawyers now because I want to learn every day, I'm learning the lingo. okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
JOHN MANYIKE [19:22]
So you now, talk us through then you where you are now. So I mean you decided to do your own thing. How did you structure that?
FIFI COOPER [19:29]
I opened my own record label. It has always been a dream of mine. You know, I knew that one day I'm going to open a record label because of the challenges that I've been through as a female artist in a male dominated industry. So for me, in my mind, I've always wanted to, you know, pave the way, especially for young girls, that come after me, even though my, my label is open to, you know, both genders, but um, when I started the label, I was really happy at the fact that, you know, sometimes every, everything, sometimes you can take a positive out of a negative situation. Every challenge you learn something from it and I'm very grateful and blessed that I got signed and I got to learn the things that I've learned there because I don't think I would be running a label if I didn't go through that, if I didn't see that a PR team is needed, a management team is needed, a driver is needed, those things are needed. So when I left already knew the basics, we start in this way, we do this we do this you get this because trust me, you can't do everything on your own thing as an artist, you know, that days when you're tired from just being on the road, maybe you're doing an album tour, you know, and you get tired. So it's easier when you have people on the ground who will be able to make sure that things are running even though you're not able to make them run and um obviously, along the way you’ll come across people taking chances it's, it's very difficult to also get like a team, like a proper, proper team. Yeah, it took me years, I'm only comfortable now, hence I'm only dropping, you know, my second album under my label now because I'm at a point where I feel like, yeah, I've got the right team, yeah, you know, and I'm ready to go.
JOHN MANYIKE [21:28]
Yeah, that's powerful. I mean, what I'm hearing from you is that you've now surrounded yourself with experts, you know, to in order to support your business. Yes, be it lawyers be it accountants and, and so on, so that everything that you have to work on is actually above board. Yeah. Now let's talk about the other side of an artist that is so crucial that people tend to underrate because, yes, well, you may be at your prime and you may be relevant, but you're, of course, your audience is also aging. Yeah. And there's also new trends and there's new artists coming up and all that. And you need to make sure that you also build a legacy for yourself and you actually have assets that will see you through in the future. So what is in your mind, I mean, what are the things that are top of mind for you and how are you dealing with this issue of building a legacy and mobilizing assets? Creating wealth for yourself, for, for the future and for generations to come?
FIFI COOPER [22:29]
I believe, like for me, I'm at a point where I don't wait for things to come to me, I go after them. Like, for example, I don't wait for people to book me because I understand that yes, they will want to book the hottest artists, the most trending artist you know. And if you're not trending, you won't get as enough bookings as you should probably think you should or you used to have. So I, I sit down with my team, we come up with, you know, our own ideas. How about we create our own events rather than wait for people to book for us. You know, yeah. How about we do this instead of we wait, you know, and how about we knock on these doors, you know, sponsorships, we send proposals. So, you know, we, we don't just sit because we think the name Fifi is still big. Yeah. And I like the fact that, you know, as a mother, it is my job to make sure that my children are covered you know, yeah, no matter what, like I have to make sure that my kids are safe, there's no issues. So I have to keep making sure that there's always revenue coming into the business. You know, now we have merchandise. We have a lot of things that we do outside of just, you know, doing music. So yeah, it's a lot. And also now that I own my masters, there are my kids even when I'm not here anymore, you know, they will SAMRO game.
JOHN MANYIKE [24:02]
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, so how important is it for artists like yourself to, to invest? And to have assets like you just said, I mean owning your masters and making sure that your kids can benefit even if you are no more, because at some point the, the, the landlord can say the lease has expired, if you know what I mean so therefore we won't be around. So how important is it for an artist to invest and you know that you've got assets behind your name? And for that legacy, for, for your kids and your generational wealth.
FIFI COOPER [24:41]
It’s super important. Like for me, it's I think it should be a priority to every artist and it should be a conversation that we have a lot because we don't have those type of conversations hence we find a lot of artists and at the end of the day, you know, at some time, those people changed our lives through music at some point. So for me, it is important to invest. Like I say, it is important to know where your money goes first before anything else that’s not necessary. Entertainment will always be there you understand? Earthly things, they will always be there, but when you’re no longer on this earth, think about how about what your children will be left with, hence the investments are important, like property, getting yourself a car that is for personal use and this is for business, you know, things like that. So it's a it's a very important conversation and we're still gonna have this conversation, trust me.
JOHN MANYIKE [25:45]
So have you had any conversation with any financial advisor around, uh, whether it's about drafting a will or maybe about having a life cover and things like that. I mean, is it something you've ever looked at?
FIFI COOPER [26:02]
Yeah, of course, of course. You know, umm its important especially for us as artists, we are always on the road, anything can happen. You are rushing from Limpopo going to Rustenburg for a gig. The event organizer doesn't care if you are late or what, he just wants you to get there and we are always rushing these people drunk on the road, even when we are driving safe, there someone from nowhere to cause an accident so people like us who are always on the road we need to make sure that if anything happens to us, we are safe. We don't have to leave our parents with those type of burdens and my artist that I work with now, we have this conversation a lot because we feel like even our government is not doing much to protect us as artists when we’re on the road or when we fall ill. It's sad that you find a big, you know, entertainer, that has been in the industry for many years, but they can't handle the hospital bills. That is not a conversation that we're supposed to be having. You know, these people, they change our lives, you know, through music, through TV and those are the people that we need to make sure we take care of them, they’re our stars. I think in other countries maybe they do that, but I know that in our country and they don't do that for us. That's why it's so important that as artists we think about ourselves you know, that's why I'm saying I'm really blessed to have kids because I don't think I'll be thinking these things if I didn't have such responsibilities and yeah.
JOHN MANYIKE [27:38]
Well though, the, the, the word SARS is a swear word for a lot of artists. How you deal with your tax affairs?
FIFI COOPER [27:50] :
Thank you for asking that question. Like I said, there are professionals, people who deal with those things specifically. Yeah. People who, we just give them everything that they need and then they're in contact with SAMRO to make sure your affairs are clean. And I think another thing, is as artists sometimes we take shortcuts. We don't want to pay these people. You want to keep the money, not knowing that SAMRO is waiting ahead. In 5-10 years, they don't forget because everything is on record, you understand? So for me, I'm grateful, like I said, that I have a competent team to know that there are certain things that need to be dealt with, you know, on the ground.
JOHN MANYIKE [28:36]
Do you know Kasongo? You haven't heard of Kasongo? Yeah. So I want to say, what if you don't have your tax affairs in order you’ll come across Kasongo. Let's talk about before we close, your reputation, or the reputation of any artist for that matter, how important is looking after your reputation if you want to stay in the game?
FIFI COOPER [29:00]
It's super important and for me it goes back to, I know that I'm an artist, right? Like, this is just me. We're obviously different as, you know, people. I've learned not, I've learned that, you know, social media and it can be good, it can be bad, it can be bright, it can be dark. Sometimes the things that you put on social media, be careful because once you become an artist, a lot of people, especially some of the fans, they forget that you are human. Whatever that you say, that you do, can be used against you so hence you have people who would want in a label to control your social media to make sure that you don’t damage your brand by you know going live and doing things maybe you are drunk somewhere you want to go live yeah you understand so for me personally like I, I, I go on social media just to post my business my new song my because, even with relationships we’ve been burnt.
JOHN MANYIKE [30:16]
So you won’t post them?
FIFI COOPER [30:17]
Only on their birthday.
JOHN MANYIKE [30:23]
You know when you said you don’t post him, I saw something on social media where they said you shouldn’t post your partner, but do you know that magwinya are eaten but they aren’t advertised? But anyway, whatever it means to anyone, it's OK. Yeah, so as we conclude, if you were to give advice to anyone out there could be an artist, could be an established artist from everything that you've learned in your journey, what would you say to them? If you were to summarize the top three most important things for an artist to thrive, what would those things be?
FIFI COOPER [30:59]
I think for me first of all do your homework. It doesn't mean that when you're an artist, you, you don't have to know the business side of things. Like I said, everything, we're fortunate now that we live in a digital world everything is on Google, everything is on the Internet. There are actually experts, you know, live on all these social media platforms, always giving advice. It's just that we only want to follow people that we think that they're entertaining. But for your business, you can follow even people who will teach you a lot of things about your business. So first of all, do your homework. Know the business side of things. Yeah. And the other thing, don't wait for opportunities. We like to sit around, especially you have one hot song, you want that one song to attract everything, to bring all these, you know, opportunities to you. Let me tell you, there are so many opportunities just waiting for you. Just if you just take the first step. Yeah. You know, like I said, for example, instead of waiting for bookings, you can create, you can create your own events. Yeah. You know, even if its door takings whatever, but you know that even when you're not working you know something is happening on the day and then lastly believe in your craft you know? No one is going to believe in your in you if you don't believe in yourself. And confidence is key. We like someone that if I’m confident in them I know that they’re also feeling confident in themselves where they are. And so I think for me, those are the three important things that I believe that you should carry what you everywhere you go as an artist trust me.
JOHN MANYIKE [32:39]
Wow, wow. Thank you so much.
FIFI COOPER [32:42]
Thank you so much for having me.
JOHN MANYIKE [32:43]
We’ve been honoured to have you here and I trust that our followers would, would have learned quite a lot from your experience and what you shared with us. Today, thank you so much. Well, that's Fifi Cooper for you. I can't add anything else I’d just be ruining it. Sharp, sharp.