Old Mutual On The Money
Old Mutual On The Money
Retired Professional Footballer, Willard Katsande, Talks Soccer, Financial Mistakes and Venturing into Business
Footballers seem to have it all… thrills, fast cars, fresh threads and big pay cheques. But life after football isn't always easy. Our Financial Education Programme Manager, Thabo Hollo spoke to former Footballer and Businessman Willard Katsande, about the money struggles players face after retirement and why early financial education is a game-changer – for players and everyone else.
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Old Mutual 0:00
Welcome to the On The Money Podcast with John Manyike.
Thabo Hollo 0:04
And today we are talking to Willard Katsande. How did you get to be where you are now?
Willard Katsande 0:11
My upbringing was a bit tough. You know, when you grow up in a village where you don't have anything, where, like, nowadays, it's some shorter days. 5:00pm is already dark. In village, it looks like it's already midnight because there's no lights, there's nothing. You can only rely on fire, you know, so you can only see that one is a house from 500 meters. That one is a house because of fire, there's no lights. So the upbringing was a bit tough, but I knew that football would take me out of the situation. And I grew up without a father. My father passed on when I was nine. That's when my life took a U-turn. My mom didn't have education, and it wasn't the way it is today, whereby women can also be employed in the companies. So she was a vendor, so I had to help her some time to sell vegetables and sugarcane. But I knew exactly. I mean, one day football will take me out of this situation.
Thabo Hollo 1:15
I like that. One day you will make it. But let's talk about that growing up in the rural areas. What are the lessons that you've learned then out of the rural areas, particularly about the value of money, what to do with money, the importance of money?
Willard Katsande 1:28
Obviously, you know, when you grow up in rural areas, you know, you eat one meal a day that on its own is not nice. And you look at your parents or a parent, she's trying. You can't fault her, but we don't have. So you will be telling yourself, when I make it in life, I don't need to go back here. When I was 13, I was more like a breadwinner at 13. Why? Because my sister was pregnant. When she was 16, she gave birth to a child, and the boyfriend denied the pregnancy. So I had to play a father role at the age of 13. Till now, if you see that, yeah, till now, if you see that boy, he's bigger than me. Growing up in the rural, it makes you tougher in any decision whereby if anything happens in your life, I don't panic because I know that I've experienced worse than this. So now we are up there. We are trying to just maintain the lifestyle, try to actually share with the other kids who are in the village who are hopeless at the moment that is doable. Black child, as long as we believe and work hard.
Thabo Hollo 2:37
But where does the soccer start? Where does the football start?
Willard Katsande 2:41
When I was six, when my dad some time took me to a football match. We had a local team was playing the PSL. I think that was the first and last me and my dad went to a football field because we ended up fighting when I was there. Because sometimes he bought me a cone. You know I'm a village boy. He bought me a cone ice cream. I finished eating the cream. Then I don't know what to do with the cone. Then I asked him what do I need to do? We were around his friends. He was so embarrassed. Then he beat me. Then I said no, I'm not going to come here. But the atmosphere in the stadium actually made me realize, you know what, I want to be in this. From there I started playing on the side and I was a head boy. Sometimes when the cows are laying on the ground they are full, the tummies are full. We play football with other guys. Then from there I had to be scouted with. I can say ABC Motsepe team. I mean were around the area to come and play. But the coach was actually doing me a favor. I wouldn’t say that I qualified. He could see the boy wants to play. And I told him my situation that I have to look after this child. So he put me in the team so that when the team wins I get a little bit of [money 00:04:10] so that I can take it home to buy the nappies. So it was tough. But, yeah, you know football changed my life. That's where I am here.
Thabo Hollo 4:08
So the initial money that you've come across was out of football. You've never done anything else?
Willard Katsande 4:14
Yes, my money, I made was out of football. Some of my young boys I grew up with, they left football to go to mining. There was a diamond mining in our area. But me I just, because the stories you heard about what's happening there, people are killing each other because of a diamond. Something like that. Then me, I just said you know what, let me just stick to football. And you know hearing the old people around the hood telling you that you have a potential to make it, then that on its own is stuck in my head. Like if I continuously work hard I'll get there.
Thabo Hollo 04:53
How much did you get paid to as a professional footballer?
Willard Katsande 4:47
Yeah. As you know in Zim to be honest football, we do have passion for the game but there's no money. Because at some point when I feel like I was earning, I was earning R1500 and I still need to pay rent. I still need to eat. I still need to use taxi money to go to training. So when I heard that there was a trial coming to South Africa, I knew that I need to grab it with both hands so that my life can change from there.
Thabo Hollo 5:26
Where did you start in South Africa?
Willard Katsande 5:29
I came to Supersport for trials. And by that time Supersport was playing in Champions League. They were travelling to Morocco. So I trained two, three days. So they had to travel with Coach Gavin Hunt. And then he says, okay, we'll make a decision from what we've seen. So when I went back to Zim, my agent [Edzai Kasinauyo 00:05:59] may his soul rest in peace, he came two weeks later, says, no, I facilitated another trial at Ajax. Whilst we're waiting for Supersport to make a decision, just trial, they're still looking for a midfielder or something like that. I didn't want to go because, you know, sometimes, you know, coming to a new environment, you know, the stress of every training session, the language barrier, because I didn't know how to speak English, you know. So I think to go start again, then he had to come and fetch me from the house to the airport, like, hey, go, this is the ticket. Not knowing that that's where my stepping stone was. Then I went to Ajax. I trained one, two days, we play a match. Then the coach liked me. Then they signed me. Then from there I just spent. Because what delayed me was work permit. So when it came out, the team was doing good, so I was more like a bench warmer. Then from there I went to play for my national team and the team wanted to release me because the coach signed me he left. So then Bobby Motaung came to Zim. He wanted to watch Lincoln Zarcia at a higher level. Then they saw me playing with Tinashe, then they liked me. Then they brought me to Kaizer Chiefs.
Thabo Hollo 7:04
But talk to me about moving from. So you said in Zim, soccer does not pay that much, right? You were running about R1500 or something like that, and you had to make do with that kind of money. Then you moved to SA, right? And suddenly there's a jump by margin of money. Did it shock you? How did you react? What's the first thing that you did with the money?
Willard Katsande 7:25
Yeah. You know, first time when I came to Ajax, I was getting R15 000. Then from R1.5K to R15 000, it was like..
Thabo Hollo 7:40
I'm rich.
Willard Katsande 7:43
[God loves me] You understand? But with time, I realized, like, “Oh, it wasn't enough.” But the first thing I did was I had a site back home. Then I had to build, because I had at the back of my mind. Like, when football ends, footballers, they don't have anywhere to put their heads on, you know. So I have to quickly do something small, something for me to say, you know what, anything happens. I have something to fall back on. And eventually was going to happen, because after a season, they were about to release me before Chiefs signed me. When Chiefs signed me, I was in the road lodge. Then the contract was in front of me. Then I looked at the zeros like, huh?
Thabo Hollo 8:25
You couldn't count the zeros. They were too much. Is this me? Then the zeros were too much. Then from there, I went to buy my mom a house in the urban town, you know. Then I took her from the village. She heard that, oh, Willard is now at Kaizer. She's, I mean…
Thabo Hollo 8:43
The big star.
Willard Katsande 8:45
I put in a nice three bedroom house. She got also a wall, a gate, whereby she can open and the TV. Now she's watching me directly, like on TV. Then sometimes she sits me down, says, “hey, is this really you I'm seeing there?” Because at some point, she wanted me to be a security guard. Then I said, nah, come on. But I'll make it in life , like security guard.
Thabo Hollo 9:07
Don't you think you would have made a good security guard, though, with that?
Willard Katsande 9:11
No, I'm not. Outside the field, I'm not tough. I'm tough inside the field.
Thabo Hollo 9:15
Inside the field.
Willard Katsande 9:16
Outside the field, I'm the sweetest person. I'm the weakest, if I may say. Because if you see me, I'm shy, I'm so reserved.
Thabo Hollo 9:25
We only see the tough ones.
Willard Katsande 9:26
Yeah. Now, if you see the right one, you know, the Katsande outside is so nice. I'm so nice.
Thabo Hollo 9:33
But here's the thing. Here is one thing that I find incredible. So, at the beginning of your career, when you were building at home, you already knew that the soccer career is short, right? Mentally, how do you prepare for that?
Willard Katsande 9:50
It goes to your background, your upbringing. I've seen worse. I've experienced tough life, so I didn't want to go back there. So I knew that, you know, at least if I have first part of cough life, which is if I have the properties back home, I have a foundation, anything comes after that. I'll look back and say, you know what, thank you, football. You know, so I started building these houses and I even bought my mother's house, you know, and now she passed on. It's something we generating money through, you understand? I mean, we put tenants because there's nobody at home. Everybody is here, you know. So we knew and we've seen, there's so many references in football right in front of you. If you choose to see, you can see. If you choose to give blind eye, it's still gonna. But it still catch up. So I knew that it's gonna come, but can I be ready?
Thabo Hollo 10:54
I'm no longer earning R1.5K. I've moved to R15K, I moved to more. And now I'm man of the match, I'm man of this, I'm man of that. I'm getting more and more zeros behind my numbers. What is the strategy at that point?
Willard Katsande 11:07
The strategy is the first thing is to invest in what they call it, your property. So that maybe when you done playing, if you think to venture into business, maybe you can convert one property and get a little bit of capital and you start something which you gonna sustain you day to day. Because if you say that you're just gonna be into properties. We're still young. When I retire in football, 36, 37, I'm young in life, but can I sit down? I know I'm gonna get my rental from my property. It's not enough because I'm still young. I still need to be out there, I still need to try things. I still need to be that kind of a businessman who wake up and being having a stress every single day. So you put your money on the side, you invested in the property. But when you stop playing, because you know, you cannot juggle business. Trust me, if you're playing any setup of like a Kaizer Chiefs, a professional setup, the demands are too high. If you're not playing football, you are doing this kind of shoots. You need to do activations. You need to think about football, you need to think about the opponent, you need to think about, it’s a full time job. So you cannot do much. You can only rely on something. Because we try to do something whilst I'm still playing. It wasn't working. But when I stopped playing, that's when I started venturing into my clothing, into my construction. Now I have my soccer school, I have this funeral police. We opened, me and Brian. This is another angle of business whereby you put hands so that at least you get busy day by day. You cannot say you are the wisest. But I wake up having a stress like a man. I stress like a business person, not like you wake up like ha dude Guys, I play football. My teams who are played for, they can't see me. My friend, you need to wake up and do something. Whoever wants you to help them in football line, they can find you whilst you're standing with your leg. You understand? They'll give you the second leg. But one leg is trying to stand, you know.
Thabo Hollo 13:09
And you're right. If we choose to see what the realities of post football life looks like, we can see that and we see a whole lot of misery. If I can say, what do we do to prevent that? How did you go about it? Now the soccer era is finished, right? Then after soccer, what then?
Willard Katsande 13:33
You see, for me, like I said, I knew and I've chose to see the references. Some of them, they are painful, but they're helpful to me. So to see exactly what do you want to be after football. So, to me, I can come back and tell the current players to say, be careful, football will end. They will look at you funny.
Thabo Hollo 14:00
Because by then we still driving the [luxury cars 00:14:13].
Willard Katsande 14:04
Yes. One thing about soccer players, they are very ignorant and arrogant and they know nothing.
Thabo Hollo 14:10
How do we change that though? How do we change that?
Willard Katsande 14:13
PSL has to start. The clubs, the chairman of the teams, they have to introduce a program whereby young footballers, they need to be taught how to look after money. Because look, as footballers, we make money at the age of 17. Here it's nothing. It's only thinking of cellphone and my Instagram and my sneakers. You understand, unlike a doctor, a doctor makes money with the age of 37. He's more wiser in terms of how he sees life.
Thabo Hollo 14:41
So mentally, when they get too much money, they're not prepared.
Willard Katsande 14:46
Yes. And trust me, you are 17 year old, you're playing for Kaizer Chiefs. Everybody knows you in the country. You understand? You're on top of everybody. If somebody comes and say, hey, my friend, football is going to end, he’ll tell you, my friend, go focus on your family or yourself. Leave me alone. I'm enjoying. But when you get to 36 [tables change 00:15:14 – 00:15:16]. You don't have a club. That's why a lot of people now commit suicide because we don't know where to go. But unlike a doctor, a doctor 36 in life, you've seen it or you suffered a lot. Now you think bigger things, you understand bigger. As footballers when you get older, you're 36, 37, nobody wants you and you don't have anything and you don't have anybody around. So the clubs need to introduce the system whereby even if they are there, there is a pension fund whereby every salary, maybe they take 10%. By the time you get to 36, you find that you have 1 million, 2 million for you to start something. It's up to you to misuse this. But you are 37, I'm sure you can make better choices.
Thabo Hollo 15:53
You thinking better at that?
Willard Katsande 15:55
Yes. When you are at 17, you need to go to nightclub, you know, when you are 17, 21, you need to be to many places at the same time and you forget you are alone, you understand? Because you just go dinner, Derby, everybody wants to see you everywhere. You go to Konka, you go to there, you go to there, you go to there, you know, you don't sleep, so you don't think about, can I have this magazine to just read and pause a little bit? Something which has nothing to do with football, but footballers, they tend to go to Netflix and check which chick is hot you know.
Thabo Hollo 16:28
But didn't you have that moment, though? Here's the question that I want to ask you, right. That we all make mistakes, right. What is the worst financial decision that you've made? The worst.
Willard Katsande 16:41
The worst financial decision I made, I would say I was stressed. At the same time I was depressed. I bought a car, Range Rover, because by that time I didn't have purpose of life. I lost my mom, you know, my mom was my pillar of strength. She died in my hands, you know. So football didn't matter to me. I was just going to football because I have to go. So I needed something to redeem me, you understand? Then I had to go and buy the car. I said, okay, can I have something to redeem? Just the inner Willard, because I'm getting lost. I was getting lost. So that's the thing I'll say, you know what here I've done some bad decision.
Thabo Hollo 17:36
Yes, but when do you realize that? When do you realize that, yes, this was to fill that hole, that emptiness. But in terms of the financial decision, this was wrong decision. When do you have that moment to say, oh, hang on, this was the wrong decision? And then what do you learn out of it?
Willard Katsande 17:53
After a year or two, because I started accepting that she's not coming back. I have to move forward you know. After a year or two, then I said, eish was this necessary? You know, it wasn't. But at the same time, you know, it gives me that boost again. It gives me to be revived again, like, okay, now I'm okay, now I'm seeing things okay, now I'm bit fresh. You know, sometimes, like Coach Steve says, sometimes forget about the budget, look after your emotions, and look after yourself. If there's a pair of sneaker, try to go get it so that it can redeem you. So I got it. But when I look into financial perspective, it wasn't necessary at all.
Thabo Hollo 18:39
You spoke about Coach Steve, in terms of the financial side of life, did you ever have any coach that spoke to you about finances, about money?
Willard Katsande 18:50
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, they're there. It's Stuart Baxter and Steve Komphela. Steve Komphela was used to, used to talk in the team talks. Like my brothers, there's bigger things after football. Look after the money, you know, those kind of things, you know, like I said, we are footballers. We are very, very ignorant. Trust me. It's like we were born from same mother, same father, all of us.
Thabo Hollo 19:15
You make the same mistakes.
Willard Katsande 19:16
The same mistakes. And the mistake is happening to Peter,John. I don't care. I'll find myself in there, then I'll react from there. But you cannot learn. That's why I said we need to preach into these things, especially in the academies. Like teach them young, because when they hit professional football, they're animals. The way they think, they're animals. They think their own way. Because you know what, I'm the real deal my friend. Nobody can tell me. But in the academy, they try to listen because they still want to make it there. So we need to revisit those ones and try to say, “Guys, look after money, your football career.” If you are lucky because me, I was lucky because I played until I feel like I don't want to play football because I didn't have an injury, you understand? But lots of you, you have injury, your career is ending. So what are you going to do after? Some, even if you get to 36, you're still going to stop. What are you going to do after 36 going forward?
Thabo Hollo 20:15
Wow. Let's talk about the post 36 now. Football is finished. What is the best decision that you think you've made in terms of finances?
Willard Katsande 20:26
The best decision is venturing to business.
Thabo Hollo 20:28
Venturing into different businesses.
Willard Katsande 20:30
Different businesses. Because at least, yeah, at least I'm getting, I call it sweet stress whereby I wake up like, I need to cover this hole. I need to cover this wall. It's good for me. And I'm getting eggs in different baskets so that I can take kids to school. Because if I say that I'm old and my kids, the other one is starting grade one next year, he's still young. He still need to get to university. As much as I was a great footballer, he's gonna Google. But I still need to put food on the table for him. He doesn't understand, like pops doesn't have money, daddy, I want a robot.
Thabo Hollo 21:07
Doesn't matter whether. Daddy must make a plan.
Willard Katsande 21:11
I have to make a plan. It dig deep, like, okay, can I do this? Can I do this? Because I don't want to disappoint him. It's not his choice to be on this earth. It's my decision. So I have to suffer through it.
Thabo Hollo 21:19
Family is important. But do you talk about finances with your kids, with your wife, family? What are the lessons that you've learned out of your own career, football career, growing up in the villages that you are talking to, if you are at all talking to your family about.
Willard Katsande 21:38
Yeah, I talk. Even the business I do, I do with my family. I do with my wife. We talk about the good, the bad, the mistakes, the expectations, the future. So we always sit down into the drawing board and see, okay, can we manipulate in this way? This way eish we did it wrong. Can we try to do this way? So we always talk and they always give me a good advice, an honest opinion, then I'm human. We can also always follow whatever they are suggesting because at the end of the day, we are a team. Because I have the boy, I told you, and I have my wife, I have my niece. You know, we are a team, so we are together.
Thabo Hollo 22:18
So you talk about finances?
Willard Katsande 22:21
Yeah, for sure. And she's the finance minister.
Thabo Hollo 22:25
Oh, is she the finance minister?
Willard Katsande 22:26
Yeah.
Thabo Hollo 22:27
Wow.
Willard Katsande 22:28
So you can just do things. Me, I'm just like, if I want to drink cappuccino, say please, you know, can I have cappuccino? If there's no money, there's no money. So, yeah, I deal with them because at the end of the day, you know, I don't believe in friends. At the end of the day, I know that the person who knows me better is her and my younger brother, I would say my younger brother, my son, my nephew. Those are the people I feel like if I going through a lot, I talk to them. They are honest. They are genuine to me, unlike other people.
Thabo Hollo 23:04
Talk to me about the lessons that you learn out of the financial mistakes that you made post football now.
Willard Katsande 23:10
Yeah. You know, sometimes it's not like I'm Mike Tyson, because like I say, Mike Tyson, I was the one. I was the victim. I was the one was moored. You understand? Then I accept, you know, because at the same time, you know, you're a footballer fighting somebody. It's better the news goes like, “Oh, they hit him.” Not like me. I hit the next person, you know? So, yeah, but I was the victim there. And the 2 million Rand property, you have to look into yourself, into what you need to achieve in future. So people mistaking that and to the extent of thinking, “No, there is 2 million rand, a house being repossessed, something like that.” It's not like that. It's a family decision whereby, you know, what we are earning, where we are going, and looking into the kid’s future, then say, you know what, if we can try to sell this house, it gives us more money to inject into our project, because we need to have a life of an eagle, whereby an eagle survive from 1 year to 36. When it gets to 36, it needs to sacrifice to beat that mouth away in order for it to survive from 36 to 70. So can we get there? If you are trying to look into this bond and this bond, this bond, and look at the income, it's not making sense. So those are the things, you sit down and make a decision with the family, then you come up with a solution. The solution maybe sometimes doesn't favor the crowd, the audience, but it's good for you, it works for you. That's a financial decision. So I don't need to sit down and explain everything to everyone. Because at the end of the day, Look, my kids are not sleeping without eating. My kids are even not going to school. They are going to in a good school. They are carrying, [lunch tins like other children], you understand?. So for me, it's a good decision I've made with my family, you understand? Because you have to see the income coming from. Because I stopped playing. The business is not well established, but it's giving us something. We are heading the right direction. So you look into, okay, can I do a business decision? Because sometimes, you know, with footballers, we tend to live in a lie.
Thabo Hollo 25:36
I hear you. I hear you.
Willard Katsande 25:37
To live in a lie.
Thabo Hollo 25:38
You live for us and try to impress us. But it's not necessarily the truth.
Willard Katsande 25:42
It's good. Like Baxter, he used to teach us about life skills. Like sometimes when it's not your day in football or in life, revisit the basics.
Thabo Hollo 25:52
Go back to the basics.
Willard Katsande 25:53
Go back to the basics. So if you try to force and force and you stay in debts, you stay, you know you don't have happiness.
Thabo Hollo 25:04
Getting rid of those pigs, sharpening the new clothes for the next 36 years. Thank you very much, my brother. And thank you very much for honoring the invitation.
Willard Katsande 26:11
Thank you very much I really appreciate it. I really enjoyed.
Old Mutual 26:19
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