Old Mutual On The Money
Old Mutual On The Money
Bontle Modiselle on the importance of teamwork with managing family finances
As one half of a celebrity power couple, Bontle Modiselle knows a thing or two about the importance of teamwork and open communication in managing family finances. She recently sat down with our Head of Financial Education, John Manyike, to share their approach to money matters and setting realistic financial goals. Packed with everyday tips that can benefit any household, this chat is a must-listen.
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Old Mutual 0:00
Welcome to the On The Money Podcast with John Manyike.
John Manyike 00:04
Today we're talking to the multi-talented Bontle Modiselle. How are you doing?
Bontle Modiselle 00:11
Amazing, great. How are you?
John Manyike 00:12
No, no, no complaints. Let's start from the beginning.
Bontle Modiselle 00:15
Really, Hamphuthi, Rockville was where I spent a lot of my days growing up with my family. It was quite beautiful. I mean, it’s a big family. My grandparents had 13 children. My mom is number nine, you understand? So, it’s a lot of children, but amazing, though.
John Manyike 00:32
Let's talk about that. I mean, you bring another aspect. I mean, growing in a family where you are many, if I may put it that way, because I come from that background as well. I want you to zoom in there because for people who cannot relate to being brought up in a family where you are many, the money issue, how does it work, you know, usually when you're so many.
Bontle Modiselle 00:49
Housing that many children, you know, obviously there's a lot of sharing you know. So, my mom is very accustomed to that kind of upbringing, but I'm pretty sure no one felt like they fell short of anything, because everyone went to school, everyone was clothed well, but obviously there's a lot of passing down of clothing, you understand.
John Manyike 01:10
Yeah, very important.
Bontle Modiselle 01:11
Yeah, so, so I think a lot of things were repurposed.
John Manyike 01:16
You learn to…
Bontle Modiselle 01:17
Absolutely.
John Manyike 01:17
Handle scarcity.
Bontle Modiselle 01:19
Definitely.
John Manyike 01:20
Yeah.
Bontle Modiselle 01:20
Definitely. I mean, I think one of the things that I'd learned about my mom, and I think maybe this was why growing up, I had quite a minimalist approach to life, right? Because I saw my mom do the most with almost nothing with the bare minimum. But, you know, when you grow up in that kind of environment, you don't even feel like you're getting the bare minimum. You don't even imagine that there could be more. So, because I'd seen my mom do the most with nothing, and I'm sure she had learned that from her mother. It seemed like that's the way of life, right? And, but you know as you keep growing older and mama now starts being a lot more open about how things are going. We were surviving off loans. So, I know it was loan after loan after loan. And I remember when we were sitting at the office of a certain bank, and we wanted to get a student loan approved because that was the only way I was going to be able to further my education. And the conversation between myself, my mother and the lovely lady at the bank was, well, if you're going to do this, I'd made a promise to my mom that if I commit to this, I promise to you mom, I will be able to, I'll pay this off, at some point in my life. And mind you at the time, I'm a student, but I'd made that commitment, and I promised mom to say, I will be able to pay it off. And thank God I was able to do that after a couple of years.
John Manyike 02:35
So, growing up in a setup like that and going to varsity, the pressure and at campus, a lot of people don't want to show their background where they come from. They come from humble beginnings, and they try and spend money to show off and to try and belong. How did you handle that transition, going to varsity, knowing you're coming from a family background like that and you can't afford to flex, you will be flexing what?
Bontle Modiselle 03:01
Because I'd seen my mom go through so much. I really made a promise to myself that I didn't want to ask from the age of 18, I don't want to ask my mom for money. So, I'm in tertiary and I started working as a promoter.
John Manyike 03:13
Okay.
Bontle Modiselle 03:15
Okay, so there I am on campus.
John Manyike 03:15
On campus?
Bontle Modiselle 03:17
Yes. So, I'm working on campus. I'm doing these little activations for various brands. Sometimes it was R40 an hour. If I was doing a really good job, it was like R200 an hour.
John Manyike 03:28
And this is in UJ, right?
Bontle Modiselle 03:29
This is in UJ.
John Manyike 03:30
I mean, for a student, R200 is a lot of money.
Bontle Modiselle 03:34
In 5 hours, you've made R1000 . And it's like, wow, you know it's a lot of money when you're in tertiary. So, while studying, I'm working as a promoter and I'm dancing. I'm in the world of dance, performing, doing work with different artists. Sometimes there was a bit of income that came from that. Sometimes I would do a job and the job would probably pay like R500 or R1000. So, because I had these various or little pockets or streams of income at that time, it really made quite the difference. But I also wasn't a very big spender.
John Manyike 04:07
Yeah.
Bontle Modiselle 04:08
You know.
John Manyike 04:09
Okay. This dancing, when did it start?
Bontle Modiselle 04:10
I was the type of child who would mimic what she saw on television, whether it was Boom Shaka, whether it was Michael Jackson. You know, I just always wanted to mirror what I saw on TV. And you know when you have these family gatherings, I was the kid that did that at school. I did the cultural activities, the rhythmic gymnastics, and ballet. I grew up in that space. When I was in high school, around grade nine, grade ten, then I got introduced to street dance culture, and that's when I started to be a part of these dance crews. And from there, that afforded me the opportunity to get introduced to the world of television through music videos. And then from there, you know getting into different shows and then corporate stages. You know, so it's been quite a long stint that I've had.
John Manyike 04:58
You know, there's something that intrigues me about people who dance, especially, like doing choreography. With age, their knees [laugh] can start deciding, no, we're not coming.
Bontle Modiselle 05:14
Look, I'm not any different.
John Manyike 05:15
How are you feeling it in your body now? I mean, you know, there's things, moves you could do maybe back in the day? How is that transition?
Bontle Modiselle 05:24
I am aging gracefully.
John Manyike 05:26
Oh, beautiful.
Bontle Modiselle 05:27
And I don't think my age is showing on my face.
John Manyike 05:29
No, no definitely not.
Bontle Modiselle 05:30
But the problem would be from feeling, not from looking, I think. So, I'm still able to move my body in certain ways. I think sometimes I tend to calculate how I move, so the strain, I don't put my body through that much strain. I think I love my body a lot more now. I think when you're younger, you're just so daring, and sometimes you do things without thinking. Now I'm a little more cognizant of it. And obviously, as a mother as well, your body changes immediately.
John Manyike 05:58
Of course.
Bontle Modiselle 05:58
You know so needing to adjust and come back to that and bounce back, that was work within itself. But, yeah, I keep active, and really, it's as simple as that. And a muscle that stops working evidently becomes a muscle that doesn't work anymore, but you know we still keep healthy and strong.
John Manyike 06:13
So, let's talk about your transition to all these other creative roles, because surely they slept differently financially, they don't pay the same.
Bontle Modiselle 06:21
No, the dance space didn't pay much back then. And then, obviously, now I'm pivoting, and now I'm exploring different avenues in the entertainment spectrum. So the first thing that I did was through dance was an acting gig. It was a debut of a film that I did called “Hear me move”. I got to play the lead.
John Manyike 06:45
Yes.
Bontle Modiselle 06:46
But now this is the first big check that I get right, because it's a lead role. You're number one or number two on the call sheet. So, I understand that you're getting the biggest check.
John Manyike 06:56
And that makes a big difference to be number one, number two.
Bontle Modiselle 06:58
You understand that because if you're going from, like, a single or three zeros and now you're going to four zeros or five zeros, it's like, oh, okay, now something is happening. But now I got to explore the world of acting through that. And you know sometimes you know as you work these different mediums, they pay differently. Sometimes you'll get paid at the end. Sometimes you'll get paid 50% to the beginning and the balance at the end. Sometimes you get paid in increments, or even if you get a final payment, it could be three months later, it could be six months later. It could be, the payment could clear only when the thing starts to broadcast, where it goes on air. And mind you, you shot that thing a year ago. You understand that, so you're needing to go to work, show up using your own money. Television always also the same thing. When I became a television host, first show that I did was called Showville. That one was quite good. And I don't know why this is, but maybe this is a conversation for another day. But there seems to be a difference that I've felt and experienced working for white productions versus working for black productions. And the payment that you get, also, these productions often have a very different budget. You know black productions don't really get a very big budget. So, you as talent, or you as crew, or you as cast won't really be paid that much. But it's always a different story when you're working on a white production.
John Manyike 08:30
If you don't double click, you'll be in trouble, because people are like, oh, is this what you are saying?
Bontle Modiselle 08:36
It's a lived experience. It's not a story I'm telling. It's just what it is. And I know that it’s not, I'm not the only one. I've got sisters who also operate within the entertainment industry. And it really doesn't matter what the medium is or what the art of expression is. Also, as an artist or as a creative, to make a lot of money in one framework. In fact, I think you are most likely to thrive or to do a lot better if you're able to find different pockets or different ways, whether in the entertainment industry or even outside of it. Just allow yourself or give yourself the ability to be able to, yeah, pull from different streams of income doing different things. There are very few success stories of people doing great in just one thing.
John Manyike 09:26
Okay. So, your breakthrough in acting. I mean,“Hear me move” and boom, you are there. Did that influence your career strategy?
Bontle Modiselle 09:37
100%. It absolutely affected my strategy. I think just as a dancer before, I could do anything with anyone at any point, right? And I could decide, okay, I can dance with this artist, I can do this kind of job. But now having explored being an actress and now being a television host, and now being on a big music platform, there's a certain status that you reach. And as you get there, there's just certain jobs that you can't do. It doesn't make sense for you to be an anchor or to be leading a certain show, but then to be a backup dancer for another artist. It just doesn't work. You know so you're really needing to reconsider the work that you do, the kind of work that you do, but also it gives you leverage you know. So even when you do negotiate for the same kind of jobs, you're able to renegotiate how you frame that job, how you're able to show up for it, and how much you're remunerated for that job. Because I've got all these other mediums to back me up. So, it's like, I’m not only a dancer. I am Bontle who dances, who acts, who dances, who sings, who this, who that. And I'm able to maximize or leverage on those things so that I'm able to maximize on another job.
John Manyike 10:51
You know, with entertainment, it's not like a nine to five where you are guaranteed whatever date you're paid a paycheck, but you know with your industry or in your industry, you know what? It's either there's a gig or there's no gig. Sometimes the gig is there, but you haven't been paid yet. How does the money thing work as a couple, being both in the entertainment industry?
Bontle Modiselle 11:16
You know, with my husband and I?
John Manyike 11:19
Yeah, he is here, he's listening.
Bontle Modiselle 11:20
No, he's listening. Look, we've never made money an issue between us. I think we've acknowledged the role that it plays, but we don’t, it's not the end all and be all of us. I mean, we're 15 years into our relationship. We talk about money, so we're very open about it.
John Manyike 11:36
15 years is a long time.
Bontle Modiselle 11:37
Yeah. Five years of those, we've been married. So, we talk about finances. We're not awkward about it. It's not tense. No one needs to hide anything from anyone. So, there are no secret accounts, my person, I don't have another bank account that you don't know about, okay? Yeah, but we're able to discuss finances you know. Like you said, the ebb and flow of the entertainment industry means that there could be months of no income for one and income for the other. But again, we don't make it awkward. There's moments where he's had to hold it down for us. There's moments where I've had to hold it down, and that's been okay. And I guess that level of openness as well is important. But I don't think this applies to just the entertainment industry. I think if you look at the state of work, just generally throughout any industry, the economy, and like you said, the nature of a nine to five and how people work that too is changing. So, I think people are needing to adapt and adjust drastically across all industries just you know so that everyone is able to sustain themselves. It's not even about thriving anymore. I think it's just about if you're able to sustain yourself. I think that is a goal reached.
John Manyike 12:47
I like what you said earlier on about being open between you and your husband. You don't keep secrets.
Bontle Modiselle 12:54
Yeah.
John Manyike 12:54
Money is one of the leading causes of divorces for many families. What would your advice be to other young couples on how they should deal with the money issue in their relationship?
Bontle Modiselle 13:04
I think my school of thought is because I'm from a very, I’m quite an independent woman, but I don't necessarily use it as a crutch neither do I throw it in my person's face. In fact, I think it helps support the collective responsibility that we have. Neither do I have an expectation as a woman for my husband to take care of everything. I think we live in a time where it's absolutely necessary to be able to show up for each other at all times. My 100% plus your 100% really just helps whatever it is that we're building. And if you’re 100%, your 100%, at that time is only 20%, you know if we're going to make it a monetary value. If all you can put in is R20 and I can put in R80 because we have the same goals, then everyone is taken care of. You understand that? So, I think have the open conversations. Don't make it weird, don't make it difficult to be able to talk about it. There is no pride when it comes to money for us. We don't shy away from being very honest about our state of being and how things are going and asking for help and needing it, and being able to accept the help, even from your partner. I think sometimes I can imagine that as a man, sometimes it's not easy for you to accept the help from your wife or from your partner. But please be happy to accept it because it's coming from a loving place. It's coming from, I would hope a non-judgmental place, and it's also coming from a place that I would hope doesn't expect to be paid back in interest. I mean, we're building a home together. So, if we have that same objective and we work towards a single goal, then that helps you know.
John Manyike 14:49
Please contextualize this independence, you know because, you know us men, we tend to have a different interpretation of a wife being independent. What does that mean?
Bontle Modiselle 15:01
My understanding of an independent woman coming from the type of home that I come from, a matriarch led home. There was no father, so it's a single income. So, I grew up in a home where my mom went to work, and that was the only source of money. So it is me working or performing any kind of work and making money and really not being dependent on anything from my husband or from my partner, but I'm able to accumulate whatever it is that I need to financially for myself without having any kind of expectation from my husband. So, if nothing ever came from him, I'd still be okay. He'd still be okay, and our daughter would still be okay.
John Manyike 15:46
I think that's the key word there, because it doesn't mean, from what I gather from you, it doesn't mean, I know suddenly you do everything by yourself and there’s nothing you involve him in, but it actually means that you are stable enough that even if tomorrow, for whatever reason, God forbid, he wasn't there, that you will still be able to live in life.
Bontle Modiselle 16:09
100%.
John Manyike 16:10
And that's the context of independence in that sense, for me, it makes sense. Your Revlon South Africa partnership.
Bontle Modiselle 16:19
Yoh Wena!
John Manyike 16:23
Oh, you didn't expect that to come out?
Bontle Modiselle 16:25
No, not at all.
John Manyike 16:27
So, tell us, how do brand partnerships and endorsement function for somebody who just hears about it? How does it work? You now what are the mechanics of a sponsorship like that?
Bontle Modiselle 16:40
Okay. So, I'd imagine a scenario that here's a brand that spots you as an individual, and they feel like they're able to collaborate, partner with you, work with you in whatever spectrum, in whatever way. So, they propose, and they say, “Hey, this is what we want to do with you.” And they can put a, before they put a number down, you want to understand in what ways they want to work with you. So what does that work look like? What's the duration of it? What is expected of me? What are the deliverables of that job? Then you can put a number to those deliverables and expectations and see if the value of it makes sense, right? Because ultimately, it's not just about the brand benefiting from that. But you as an individual, how does this partnership, how does it mutually benefit both parties? You know they'd come to me, they'd said, “Hey, this is what we want to discuss with you.” And if you're fortunate enough to have management or representation or someone who is able to do those negotiations for you, there can be some pushback. You can kind of make sense of certain things. Others you know you're able to renegotiate and say, okay, look, if we can't change the number, because sometimes they can't change the numerical value of something, but you're able to change the scope of work. Sometimes you're able to adjust the scope of work, and sometimes you're able to adjust the number that comes with that scope of work. So, if you have this kind of experience, you're able to have those conversations. If you've got management, they can have those conversations for you. But it's a number of things. But I'll always say, like just don't say yes to the first number that is thrown your way.
John Manyike 18:18
Yeah. Are you happy with this one?
Bontle Modiselle 18:18
[Laughs]. Yeah, yeah.
John Manyike 18:26
So, this brand partnership with Revlon SA, how has it influenced your career strategy and your finances?
Bontle Modiselle 18:35
I mean, it happened in 2017. I mean, definitely when you get into a partnership with a big brand like that, you've got more muscle you know, so you're able to negotiate differently. You're able to make certain demands in a certain kind of way. You're also able to understand how brands perceive you. You're also able to understand how your audience may perceive you in alignment with a particular brand. So, all of these things are a continuous conversation. And I think you just need to allow yourself to be aware of what these conversations are and what you do about those conversations and how you're able to maximize those conversations.
John Manyike 19:12
Okay. So, the arrival of your daughter. How has the arrival of your daughter changed the way you handle money and the way you deal with money?
Bontle Modiselle 19:20
Money in relation to my daughter, yeah, it's a very big change. It's made me 1000% more selfless. You know I think I've always been the type of person, and sometimes to my own detriment. I've tried to be almost like a financial savior complex, right? But that showed up as being like an older sister or a mother figure in the world of dance and making sure that my dancers are compensated. So, if I'm able to do that for my dancers, what more for my daughter? You know, obviously, I wanted to have the best possible future and to be able to create that in real time and hope that she has a softer cushioning and landing as she gets older. I mean, losing my father very early on in my life, obviously was quite unfortunate, even though my dad was an accountant. But it's not like we received a pay or a lump sum of money when we turned 18. But that's where my thinking is now for Africa, and that's what I would like to do for her. My mom did go on retirement last year for the first time, and we had to have very real conversations. What happened in preparation for that retirement? As a pensioner, what does that look like and a will? She is getting older you know, so me thinking, even thinking about her life without my mom is unbelievable. But nonetheless, preparations still need to be made. And we're having this conversation with my mom now in her 60s. Wills are a conversation that I'm able to have now, and insurance now in my 30s. So, I guess, the fear of it, I think, is what's changed. Now we're able to go into that conversation quite honestly and say what are our options and what is the best way to navigate it?
John Manyike 21:01
If you had a chance to speak to young women who want to pursue a career in creative arts, how would you advise them on the subject of money management.
Bontle Modiselle 21:12
The creative space is a very difficult one to navigate. Also, please learn about tax, especially as an entertainer.
John Manyike 21:22
No, no, no.
Bontle Modiselle 21:24
But anyway, but we'll come back to that.
John Manyike 21:25
Okay.
Bontle Modiselle 21:25
But try to create as much sustainability for yourself in an inconsistent space. So obviously you want to be able to save as much money as you can. I don't spend recklessly. I'm not a brand heavy person. So, you know what, these luxury brands, I'm not that type of person. If you are, that's okay. I decide to use my money differently. If I'm able to put it away, I can learn about investments. Don't spend the money as soon as you get it you know, because very soon it's going to run out. The cost of living is unbelievable right now. So, you really want to be smart about how you use your money you know just because you see that R20,000 it will disappear immediately.
John Manyike 22:08
Thank you so much for joining us.
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