Old Mutual On The Money
Old Mutual On The Money
Ms Cosmo on letting your talents grow your wealth
Having set the world alight on the DJ decks, Ms Cosmo has evolved into a world-class radio, TV, and podcast personality, multiplying her earning potential and revenue streams. Our Head of Financial Education, John Manyike, caught up with her as she shared ideas, insights and inspiration on how to diversify your income by letting your talents grow your wealth.
Thanks for listening! Interested in getting more financial education? Visit our website for free resources. You can follow us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube.
Old Mutual 00:00
Welcome to the On The Money Podcast with John Manyike.
John Manyike 00:04
We’re with Ms Cosmo herself.
Ms Cosmo 00:07
Yes.
John Manyike 00:08
How you doing?
Ms Cosmo 00:09
I'm good, and yourself?
John Manyike 00:10
Ag, no complaints, no complaints. I'm glad you could join us.
Ms Cosmo 00:13
Thank you so much for having me.
John Manyike 00:14
And I'm really looking forward to hear another side of you that people don't know it.
Ms Cosmo 00:19
Okay.
John Manyike 00:19
We know, which is the financial side, because people don't talk about that.
Ms Cosmo 00:22
Yeah, I don't talk about it.
John Manyike 00:26
[Laughs] So, you were born in Diepkloof, but then you're relocated to the northern suburbs. And let's talk to us about your upbringing, your family background, and so on.
Ms Cosmo 00:38
I lived in Diepkloof until I was about five, six years old. And we moved through to the northern suburbs around that time. I mean, we can thank Mandela for that because [laughs] we were finally free to go and join the good side of life.
John Manyike 00:54
Oh yeah, oh yeah.
Ms Cosmo 00:55
So, that's when we actually moved in through to Sunning Hill. We stayed there for a couple of years. But I did go to school in the northern suburbs as well. I went to Bryanston Primary, I went to Bryanston High School, yeah, and I went to study at UJ.
John Manyike 01:08
Yeah. Look, there aren't so many families who would move from the Kasi, and then boom, you know, in the northern suburb. You know, can you imagine, when you're talking Bryanston Primary, Bryanston High School? I mean, for you, it might be, you know, but for some of us, it's a big deal, you know, but surely that must tell us something really, you know, it was a good sign that your parents got it together?
Ms Cosmo 01:32
Yes.
John Manyike 01:33
What were some of your observations in terms of how they handled money? And just generally the outlook, as far as financial management?
Ms Cosmo 01:41
I think my parents were definitely a lot more privileged in the sense that they had education on the side. I think education definitely was a backing in how they carried themselves, and how they actually brought us up as well. It both went to Fort Hare University, that's actually where they met. And both of my grandparents on both maternal and paternal side were educators. So, obviously, education, very important part of their upbringing. And obviously, when they went to university, they made sure that they equipped themselves with the right type of degrees to actually get them into certain spaces. My dad, for instance, just like me, also a financier, he studied finance as well. So, I think also his background in becoming a banker, influenced the way that he managed money and influenced the way that he understood what was important for us as a family and how to actually then raise us in South Africa.
John Manyike 02:32
Yeah. Surely you must have made some very specific observations around the etiquette and their posture towards managing, I mean, what are those lessons you learned from them?
Ms Cosmo 02:42
The biggest lesson that I did get from both my parents is needing to work for what you want. That was a big lesson that I had received, especially from my dad. Everything had kind of like a cause and effect, you work for something, you get a reward. And I think from then on, that's how I kind of grew up. And I figured out that that's how I needed to then maneuver my way through life. And it was very important at that point in time for me to understand that because I also then understood that not everything comes for free, because you know, children can just scream and expect everything to fall from a tree and that's not how life works. You know what I mean? So, I think that was important.
John Manyike 03:17
Coming from a family with a very strong academic background, that's certainly influenced some of your choices in terms of, I mean, you have a whole B.Com degree in Finance and Investment Management. I mean, that's big.
Ms Cosmo 03:32
Yes, it is.
John Manyike 03:33
But at what point did you make that bold decision that I'm going to switch to entertainment. Finance, I see, but perhaps maybe there's a space for it but my career is in entertainment.
Ms Cosmo 03:45
Look, I think, as humans, we all have certain passions. And we also have certain directions that are going to take us into different spaces. I mean, my studying finance, obviously a little bit influenced by my dad, because he was also a banker. But it was also just what I was just good at like, math is my thing. Numbers are my thing, accountings my thing, so it was just easier for me to kind of go in that direction, you know, and I did, I mean, I went to the full way I studied, and I also then started working at a bank. And I worked there for about four years. I was a property consultant, actually, I was assisting people with actually getting, you know, application through to credits and purchasing commercial properties. And at the time, I mean, I started out as a graduate consultant, so I didn't really have money. I didn't really know what I wanted. But going back to the conversation around passion, music has always been there from when I was a kid, always performing for my parents, performing for their friends, you know, that being that little star in the house. But when you grow up and you get into high school, you go to university, you start thinking back and you're like, “But is this the thing that I really want to do? What do I want to do?” I wasn't sure at the time. But something that I was subliminally doing that I didn't realize at the time, I developed this thing where I was doing, I was making mix-tapes when I was in high school.
John Manyike 04:58
Yeah.
Ms Cosmo 04:58
So, I would create like these mix-tapes because I had like a list of songs that I wanted to make, and I will send them to my friend, he would burn a couple of CDs for me. But don't do that, that's piracy. Anyway, [laugh] but I used to create these mix-tapes and going into varsity, a lot of my friends used to ask me to bring those CDs with me, whenever we would have brie’s or parties or whatever. So, subliminally I was already a DJ, but I didn't really know that's what I was doing. I got to a point where a friend of mine suggested, “Hey, why don't you get into DJ’ing, you've actually got an ear for this thing?” But I didn't have the money to actually then immerse myself into it, because they’re very expensive hobby to have. Equipment is expensive. The lessons are expensive. So, I was like, you know what, let me just continue with finance. This seems like a safer route for me. And as I started at my job, that's when I started earning a salary. And I was like, “Okay, well, here's my chance.”
John Manyike 05:49
Yeah.
Ms Cosmo 05:50
And I went for DJ classes. So, I went to a DJ school, learned how to actually started out. And when I started, I was still just kind of like, you know, doing the double time thing. A lot of my friends would ask me, they're like, “Ah, you're a DJ, but you're doing a nine to five.” And I was literally working, going to the office, Monday to Friday, on the weekends, I was doing the gigs, it got to a point where it got really taxing. And it also got to a point where I was doing too much of both, where I wasn't really giving 100% of my energy to either of my jobs. I was struggling on the nine to five side because I was exhausted, I was thinking about too many things that I wanted to do. And then I need to do interviews during the week, but I have to be at the office, it was getting a little tricky. On the weekend, I'm exhausted because I'm sleeping late. So, I think I had to then sit back and say, “Okay, if I take this risk, would I be able to financially look after myself, before I decided to take this jump?” So I definitely had that pros and cons conversation with myself and say, “Okay, what am I going to do? What am I not going to do before I take the leap?” And I was lucky enough to actually manage my finances, I actually paid off my car before I even left. So that when I did leave, then the only thing I was really just looking after there was maybe just insurance and paying for rent, which really wasn't much at the time. So I think taking that risk was one of the best decisions I've made for myself. And I wouldn't take it back. But I do still appreciate what I did when I was working in the finance space. Because I think a lot of the teachings is what I implemented myself as an artist today.
John Manyike 07:21
Yeah. So, when you finally made that bold decision to jump, how did your family react to that?
Ms Cosmo 07:28
Yoh, Black people, look, I mean, I think at the time, I had gotten pretty independent, because I had been at a bank for about close to like three and a half, four years. So, I was really just making a lot of my own decisions, even when I started the DJ’ing. Because remember, I was DJ while I was working. But then when I was like, “Ay Ma, this is looking like a serious thing.” And she was just like, okay my child, like, do what you need to do. She was obviously a little bit worried. But I think she could see that I was very determined what I was doing because I was also achieving a lot of things very early in my career. My dad was just like, “Don't phone me for money, don’t call me when you have problems.”
John Manyike 08:05
It sounds more like me. This is your call.
Ms Cosmo 08:09
Do what you want with your life. I've done my job. You've been to school. That's it. But I think they're both very, very proud of how I've managed to maintain myself even after taking that risk.
John Manyike 08:19
Yeah. So, how did the name Ms Cosmo comes about?
Ms Cosmo 08:22
So, it comes from the cocktail Cosmopolitan.
John Manyike 08:25
All right.
Ms Cosmo 08:25
So, at the time because I was at the bank, I didn't really want to be DJ Noni as because it felt very boring. But it was also just like, I wanted to have like two different personas to be Noni at the bank, DJ on the weekend, you know, so trying to figure out a name. I was went out for drinks with a couple of friends of mine, actually, DJ Dimples, may rest in peace. He's the one who gave me the name, a very good friend of mine. He was also very motivational in me getting into the DJ space because he's a big supporter of females in the space as well. And he's the one who actually gave me the name because I had one too many cosmopolitans and, you know, we're here and then he gave me the name DJ Cosmo. And then I added the miss in the front, just to reiterate that I'm a female.
John Manyike 09:07
Talk to us about some of the biggest names that you've worked with and your love for hip hop.
Ms Cosmo 09:12
I think what also helped at the time as well was that I was on radio. So, I think that platform definitely elevated my brand a lot more. It gave me access to certain artists from an interview perspective. And I think my biggest love and contribution to the music industry was also giving them a platform because I think at the time Hip Hop wasn't really getting a lot of interviews. It wasn't getting a lot of space. He says to kind of express themselves. So, I gave myself that that opportunity to say, here's the hip hop show, whoever's up and coming, they're going to come on the show, they're going to be able to kind of, you know, come speak and present themselves. And that's how I cultured a lot of my relationships. My first single I had Nasty C, Kwesta and Rouge, which was really dope and I think I appreciated the fact that they were so willing to work with me at the time. Because I mean, it was literally just my first song I hadn't done anything before then. Work with the likes of Sho Majozi, Nomuzi, Nelisiwe Sibiya, also work with recently Blackie, Kamo Mphela on my new single as well. Moonchild, Boity as well. So, there's just a couple, yeah.
John Manyike 10:11
Wow. So, from finance to DJ’ing, producer, how has your background in finance, influence or shape your approach to managing money in the entertainment industry?
Ms Cosmo 10:26
I think it's helped me a lot. Because I understand from a banking perspective, what the bank wants when I want to buy assets. And I don't think a lot of artists have that information, they don't understand the importance of how to present yourself as a business how to even have financial statements, which I don't think they took very seriously. Even having something like insurance, I never used to take insurance seriously until I got insurance because I was forced to get it because I was working at the bank. But you realize little things like that are a necessity, especially when you're kind of growing up, you're going to become an adult. And being an artist, I realized a lot of artists just they get money hand to mouth, literally everything kind of works like this. And I realized for myself that I needed to register a company, I needed to have financial statements, I needed to have create my own asset base for myself to also run myself as a business and not necessarily say that I'm a freelancer, because there's so many implications when it comes to that, whether it comes to tax, or it comes to just to general expenses, being able to have a credit score, being able to apply for certain things. And I see a lot of artists now who are struggling with it. And maybe they depend on the management or they depend on the label to acquire assets for them. But they don't realize how those things are actually bought for them. And then it becomes a whole conversation of “hey hey you stole my money”, that whole conversation happens. But it's because they don't have the education of how these things work in a back. And if a label is gonna buy a car for you, they buy it because they've got the credit score, they've got the financial backing to actually get those assets for you can't just wake up and say I want a car. We do get the car from, you know. So I think it definitely helped from their perspective.
John Manyike 12:05
Have you explored that opportunity maybe I mean, given that the fact that it's such a huge gap in the entertainment industry, the behind the scene is the area where they lack? Is it something you've explored?
Ms Cosmo 12:17
I mean, definitely have thought about it, thought about how I would actually help people and so forth. Yoh, but artist are headaches [laughs], you can't tell them anything, they just want to rock on the weekend. And then they'll see what they do during the week. So it's not that I haven't thought about how to actually do it. The thing is with finances that people don't want to talk about money, people don't want to talk about how they manage it. People don't want to expose themselves as to how little they actually have in their bank account because it's coming in and going out at the same time. People don't want to expose themselves to conversations like that. They just want to see the highlife, social media Instagram, this is what I have. So, I think for me right now I'm just trying to figure out a way to have the conversation without making it seem very invasive, without it being too draining and boring that it doesn't make sense to the next person. It's interesting for me, because I studied it, but for the next person is not.
John Manyike 13:10
Winning the DJ of the year, the 2021, South African Hip Hop Awards, it's certainly a notable achievement for you. But how, when you look at it, I mean, how does this translate into opportunities for you, you know, to advance your career and all that?
Ms Cosmo 13:25
I appreciate the accolade. I appreciate the fact that there's a little bit of recognition, and it's coming from an award ceremony that is also highly regarded in the space as well. I think anybody and everybody who gets awards, it really is just a pat on the back. It's a “Hey, well done, we recognize you, we see you.” But you need to figure out how you work with it from there. Just because you've gotten recognition doesn't necessarily mean you need to kind of sit back and then say, “Okay, I've made it now because I got my award. I can sit down.” It needs to be a motivated needs to be something that you kind of used to cultivate to make more money, or for you to kind of get yourself into different spaces and you work a little bit harder.
John Manyike 14:00
So, you've also signed with Warner Music Africa, is this a big move on your part? And how do you see this partnership changing things in terms of your career?
Ms Cosmo 14:11
I actually really appreciate the new collaboration with Warner Music. And I also think it's important for people to understand because there's always this conversation around labels and how labels are taken advantage of artists or artists don't know what they signed. I really think that you can always kind of benefit with two heads as opposed to one. And for the longest time, I think I was operating solo, trying to figure it out on my own because now I was being egotistical. Don’t worry what I’m doing. I know what I'm doing, I could get. I know everybody in this industry, I can get into any door. And you realize actually a lot harder trying to manage so many things at once by yourself. My signing actually with Warner Music is more of a conversation of we're working together. It's a partnership we're trying to take my brand MS Cosmo to the next level together. It's not a thing of their own me, or I don't know what they're doing, or whatever the case is. And of course, I mean, I had a lawyer look at my contract. So everybody is getting what they need to get. And I think that's the important part about it is that, are my interests going to be served? Are their interest going to be served, everybody needs to pull their weight and everybody will be happy at the end of the day.
John Manyike 15:17
What are your financial goals in this new phase of your career?
Ms Cosmo 15:22
Signing with a big label like Warner. Definitely, my sights are looking at more international stuff. I've been doing a lot of work in South Africa. And I think now's the time for me to kind of elevate just a little bit more, and see where else I can kind of take myself and partnering and working with Warner Music Group gives me the access to those types of opportunities. So definitely hoping to see if I can do a lot more stuff in Europe, possibly the United States, Australia in the next couple of years.
John Manyike 15:51
How is business right now?
Ms Cosmo 15:54
Eish, It's tricky for everybody, Cyril’s economy is a little bit tricky for all of us. You know what? I think everybody is really just still trying to recuperate what they lost from Covid.
John Manyike 16:05
Oh, yeah.
Ms Cosmo 16:06
I think that's the biggest thing that we're not giving accounts to is that artists are the ones that suffered the most during Covid. Everybody else, all of my friends who were working in a bank, or had nine to fives were happily working from home with their laptops clicking away many still coming in on. We were the ones who are suffering because we couldn't jump on stages, we couldn't perform anywhere, we couldn't go to the club and we couldn't do anything. So from an asset to finance perspective, we lost a lot of money. So, I think a lot of artists right now we're still trying to, we're basically working backwards trying to fix what we lost in the last two years and now seeing how we can move forward from there. For myself, particularly, I do think I am now in a more recovered phase of where I was, especially for where things had kind of gotten lost in the last two, three years. But I do think now, it's just a case of moving forward, you can't really sit and cry over spilt milk. What happened, happened. Now it's about moving forward and building from there.
John Manyike 17:04
What are you doing differently this time around to make sure that if there was another pandemic, God forbid, that you would handle the situation better? What are you doing different?
Ms Cosmo 17:12
Definitely a lot more savings. Generally speaking, a financier or insurance broker, whatever the case is, your financial planner would say to you, okay, have savings for plus minus about six months. We had Covid for two years. So, it was like, “Okay, we got to number eight”. Like, when is this thing ending? What's going on? So it makes you realize that things are not as put into stone as you think it is, or everybody's just projecting. Projection is a guess in other words, we're basically looking at what we think might happen, was it okay, maybe it's six months, maybe eight months. So, I think for me, now, I'm trying to do things which are a lot more solidified. So, I'm trying to do things that I think will be able to help me in the long run, which is getting back into buying property or buying a car by getting into business. And I think a lot of artists also need to understand that you can work on just gig money only because gig money also, it's here and there. Promoters are also suffering. Promoters are also still trying to recover from what happened. Brands are also now re-looking at the way that they spend spending money. They used to pump a lot of money into the venues now they're not doing that anymore. They're going into social media, they're going into different types of marketing. So because all those things are changing, we also get affected because of their decisions. So. I think it's important for us to also look at other streams of income. And those other streams don't necessarily mean you have to go into a nine to five, you can build yourself and build your brand, either getting into business like you know the likes of DJ Zinhle or whatever, where she's got her jewelry brand. Or you can get into brand partnerships or you build an agency. There's different ways to kind of skin this cat as long as you can figure out from a money perspective what else to do.
John Manyike 18:51
Being a public figure managing finances under spotlight will always be a challenge because society expects you need to drive a particular type of car, you need to go to certain type of places, and you need to live in a particular area and so on. How do you navigate that kind of pressure?
Ms Cosmo 19:08
Very quickly I told myself that these things aren't as necessary as we think they are. Number one, nobody knows where you live. Number two, nobody has to know what car you're driving, Number three, you don't have to show up in the diamond walk, it’s not a necessity. You start to sit back and you look at where am I spending a lot of my money? Does it make sense for me to spend all that money? And for me, I quickly remembered, “Okay, cool, I might drive a certain car, but maybe I don't want other people to know I drive this car.” So I'll purposely not post it or I won't put it in on social media.
John Manyike 19:46
But others will post them.
Ms Cosmo 19:47
And that's the problem. Because I just feel like as long as you can get to your gigs, and you can get home, that's all that matters. I think it's important to understand that those things are your private, you know, places and you can spend however is in your budget for you to stay where you need to clothes fashion. Like, we don't really have to buy all of these expensive brands, anybody can shop wherever they can just to look good, because it's about looking good. It's not about feeling expensive. So I think for me, because my brain works like that. I'm always just like, it doesn't make sense for me to spend R30,000 on a handbag. I sit there and I'm just like, I could have done this, this, this and this with that 30,000. So I tried to manage myself, like that's okay, rather let me go shopping, maybe with 3000-4000 Rand, I can still get clothes, I can look good, and then use the rest of the money doing other things that make more sense to me, you know.
John Manyike 20:33
Looking at the evolution of your career. I mean, earlier on, you spoke about diversifying income. What is your approach?
Ms Cosmo 20:39
Finding myself in different spaces. How I've kind of done for myself, is I've looked at where my strengths are. Yes, I started as a DJ. But then I diversified and I went to radio, I went into some TV spaces, I'm now doing podcasting. I'm also then in the music space as well, all of those things are kind of working for me. Now I'm able to expand my brand, and also then get into campaigns, pitching certain ideas to brands as well to get that money back. And that's exactly why I said artists don't have to get into a nine to five to make more money. You are who you are, because people appreciate the artists that you are today. How else can you use it? So if you're a singer, maybe you're doing, I don't know, you're doing background singing for a movie, or whatever the case may be, or you find yourself doing voiceover work, or maybe you are going into theater and all those things can pay you. You just have to get yourself into those spaces.
John Manyike 21:26
So, how does this work then? So, you're doing different gigs. I mean, that's all the money comes to into your bank account? I mean, or do you have a company? The money goes in there, and then you draw a salary there and how does it work? How do you do that?
Ms Cosmo 21:40
Part and person of me understanding my finances because of my finance background, I do have a business account. And from there is when I kind of draw my salary from there and take whatever I need to take from the business and then the rest has to kind of grow the business.
John Manyike 21:54
Yeah. So, how do you deal with Mr. Taxman?
Ms Cosmo 21:58
Like everybody else, I have an accountant.
John Manyike 22:02
You know, some people might not have accountants. I mean, we hear stories.
Ms Cosmo 22:07
Look, there's a lot of stories. And you must also remember with every story, there's two sides, to it. So the receiver might see it, that you're running away from tax, but maybe your accountant just did the wrong thing. Okay. And it's not to say that I don't want to deal with my taxes as artists, we don't understand. It's, like a friend of mine, the other day was even complaining on Instagram. She's just like, I have to register a company. Now I have to register for VAT. What does that VAT mean? And I called her and I was like, “Don't worry, I'll explain what VAT is to you. I'll explain how it works.” Because generally speaking, Creatives just don't understand these necessities. And that's why I think an accountant is very important, but you need to have somebody that you trust, because there's some shady ones, who are also stealing money. And then you see people on newspapers, and you ask yourself, how, because they have so much money, but that also doesn't know what the accountant is doing. So, it's very difficult. So, I think trust thing also needs to kind of come into play in that perspective.
John Manyike 22:58
Okay. So, as a woman in entertainment, have you faced any unique challenges? And if so, what are those kinds of challenges and how do you deal with them?
Ms Cosmo 23:06
I think the challenges that most women face in the entertainment space is just the difference in treatment. Obviously, because I'm a woman in South Africa. Off the bat, I'm already getting paid less than a guy. That's the first challenge that we all experience.
John Manyike 23:21
But how? We are both artists.
Ms Cosmo 23:22
That's my problem. We're all doing the same job. Why am I getting paid less? That's just so I've had to fight for my right to then say this person is earning this amount of money, but this is what I'm bringing. This is how I can elevate myself and I think it's important for women to say, okay, cool. You want to earn the same as a guy? What are you bringing to the table? Are you working hard to up-skill yourself to actually prove yourself a little bit further? Also for women we have more expenses. We have makeup, we have hair, we have outfits, we need a road manager, we can't go to gigs by ourselves. I have to pay either a driver or a road manager to be with me just from a safety perspective. I need to make sure I look good. So when I arrive somewhere, my makeup is expensive, hair is expensive, outfits are expensive. Everything kind of plays a part. Whereas my male counterparts just arrive in the tracksuit pants and their R10 haircuts and they're good to go. You know what I mean? It's very difficult from that perspective. So we have to work a little bit harder because we have way more expenses than the guys do.
John Manyike 24:18
Yeah. Finally, what would your advice be to people who want to get into the industry, and they have no clue on how they need to navigate their finances?
Ms Cosmo 24:29
I think for me, I'd always have to say, get yourself a financial planner. I think that's the important thing. And the reason why I say that is because their job is to help you manage to save a little bit of money, but also put your money in the right places, but also how to manage yourself as a business. Savings are also very important. And I know people are very difficult. Well, they find it very difficult to save money. So I've always said to them, “Okay, maybe you don't have to do it for yourself, are you taking 100 Rand putting it away, get a debit order, because then it's forced, you don't have a choice, that money is going disappears for however long. And then when you want to access that you can access it when you want.” I find it easier that way. Because it's very hard to say ay, but maybe I can buy a six pack on the weekend with those R100. But it was a debit order. It's gone. It's done. It's out of your mind. But I definitely think the first point would be get a financial planner because they can work with whatever amount of money you're working with. It doesn't necessarily have to be R100,000, it could even just be 10,000 and they'll help you and they'll know what to do with it.
John Manyike 25:28
Wow, Ms Cosmo, thank you for joining us. Thank you for your insights and your wisdom. And I'm sure a lot of us will learn from what you've shared with us today.
Ms Cosmo 25:37
Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it.
John Manyike 25:40
Subscribe to the Old Mutual On The Money YouTube channel and become a master with your finances.
Old Mutual 25:45
Old Mutual. Do great things every day. Old Mutual Life Assurance Company (South Africa) Limited is a licensed FSP and life insurer.