Old Mutual On The Money
Old Mutual On The Money
Comedian Eugene Khoza talks about loss and lessons learnt
While he knows how to keep an audience laughing, comedian Eugene Khoza has experienced the darker side of life in recent years. He shares the lessons he learnt about the financial impact of death with our Head of Financial Education, John Manyike, and the importance of preparing for the unexpected financial fallout. Don’t miss this authentic, honest and insightful discussion.
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John Manyike 00:04
Eugene, Ek se’ howsit?
Eugene Khoza 00:06
Good, thank you.
John Manyike 00:08
Maybe let's talk about where you come from. I know you are a Pretoria, Tshwane guy. Tell us more about your background.
Eugene Khoza 00:13
I come from Mamelodi, Petri next to the graveyard. That's what it’s famous for.
John Manyike 00:18
Were you sleeping at night?
Eugene Khoza 00:19
Yeah, we slept very well. We've been played at the graveyard so, I only got scared of the graveyard when I grew up and I saw ghost stories. And I was like, actually I’ve been living here all along?
John Manyike 00:28
Yeah.
Eugene Khoza 00:28
Yeah. So that's where I grew up.
John Manyike 00:30
So, actually, you saw a ghost?
Eugene Khoza 00:31
No, no, only in the movies. [Laugh], yeah, so that's where I grew up. I spent most of my childhood there, some of my adulthood there. And then, yeah, that's where I am now.
John Manyike 00:40
Okay. Family wise, siblings?
Eugene Khoza 00:44
Three other siblings. I'm the third out of the four. I'm not the last born and I'm not a middle child. I'm somewhere in between confused, yeah.
John Manyike 00:52
Any offsprings?
Eugene Khoza 00:53
Yes, I've got one daughter. She just turned 15.
John Manyike 00:56
Okay, but only one?
Eugene Khoza 00:57
Yes.
John Manyike 00:58
Okay. You working on?
Eugene Khoza 00:59
We'll see how the economy goes.
John Manyike 01:02
It's an economic decision.
Eugene Khoza 01:04
Yeah, I think also, I've had this conversation before with a friend of mine. And I said, if you look at the TV shows that our generation watched, because I'm 42 this year. So I say if you look at the show that girlfriends, living single, it was not promoting families.
John Manyike 01:20
Yeah.
Eugene Khoza 01:20
And when I drive around four ways or Centurion, I can see that generation is of mostly single women or single men, people that don't live with their children and not pursuing this thing in life. And in my head, I always think they're in their late 20s or early 30s. And I find out, they're in their 40s. You know, they're still thinking, okay, maybe if I can afford a four bedroom, a five bedroom, then I can have children. But then I'm like, it's a generational thing, you know, and if there was something I could do differently, is I would have more children earlier, because now at 42 I see the importance of it, you know, the work life balance, it gives you a purpose, you know, because it's not all about work.
John Manyike 01:54
Eugene, you took a long break from the public domain. I mean, you're a multi-talented entertainer.
Eugene Khoza 02:04
So they say.
John Manyike 02:05
Yeah, you know, so I mean, the fact that you do stand-up comedy, you produce, I mean, you've got different hats to take a long break of about five years. I mean, because I'm sure people are wondering, it must have taken a lot out of you.
Eugene Khoza 02:18
Absolutely. But it was totally necessary. You know, there was a lot going on at the time. And I've spoken about this before. I said, the loss of my son who was three months old at the time, only hit me a year after he had passed on that what had happened, you know, so I needed to take a break, because I understood easily that if I don't take a break, I'm gonna fall apart. Breaks in our industry are very expensive.
John Manyike 02:41
That’s true.
Eugene Khoza 02:42
But I decided I had to do it, I moved with my daughter to PE, we live by the beach for over a year. And I came back to Gauteng again, and I started working again. So I'm grateful that I could come back and work. But I'm grateful that I could take the time off, off of work, off of the pressure, off of the expectation and take care of myself and come back the way I was.
John Manyike 03:02
I'd say that's very bold and courageous. You know, it was so wise, because you have to listen to your body. You need to know yourself and your limits to the extent where you say, “You know what, I'm taking that break.” But as you say, you know, in your industry breaks are expensive. I mean, if you’re a freelancer, if you don't work this, there's no income. I mean, if you have a nine to five, I mean, you go through depression sometimes, they've got sick leave, it can give you sick leave. You’re playing nine to five. But, of course, I mean, you do have a limit in terms of what you can earn if you're doing a nine to five, yeah, and with you with multiple heads up. But I'm interested in understanding during that extended break, the necessary one as you put it, how did you handle finances at that time? And when there's no income, did you have savings, a buffer of some sort to be able to sustain you for that five years? How did you do that?
Eugene Khoza 03:51
I had savings. But also I realized that I was trapped in a cycle of working so I can pay for things that I had. So I always say to people, people grew up with nothing. They work hard so they can have something. And once you have things then the things own you now. I have to work to pay these things. So for example, if my debt a month, my bills are 80,000 Rand, so it means I have to make over 100,000 Rand to pay my bills. But if I cut off all those bills that 80,000 Rand, it means I'm paying myself 80,000 Rand, does it make sense? It means I'm paying myself, so if I take away the house, the car and the thing that cost me 80,000 Rand.
John Manyike 04:28
It’s the money that comes to you.
Eugene Khoza 04:29
So if I don't go to work, it means I'm paying myself 80,000 Rand not to deal with the stress. A lot of us and especially people of colour, we don't know how to surrender to debt to do voluntary surrender to things that we've bought especially big thing, because they are attached to our emotions. They're attached to our growth. They're attached to perceptions and how people see us. So that's a conversation that I had with myself before I embarked on this journey. I looked at myself and I thought to myself 60,000 Rand a month on things that I don't use every day house here, and another house there, and a car here. I don't need all these three things. What can I get rid of, so I can have, I can pay me to take care of myself. And I started with that. And then I realized that my savings could carry me. And I was able to do a lot of online work as well, which has nothing to do with comedy, which was a lot of corporate work, I wrote a couple of programs for insurance companies that I was able to do training for them and license the IP. So I was happy that I could do that. But I would have never been able to do that. Had I not cut off the debt that I had, had I not taken time off of my job as an entertainer. And had I not had savings, or intellectual property to actually sell.
John Manyike 05:36
You mentioned something profound there. Were there specific things that you had to give up that you had to surrender to try and compete?
Eugene Khoza 05:42
Oh definitely, the one big thing was, was my car that I loved a lot. And the other thing was my other house that I loved a lot as well. But I realized after I bought the house, that, okay, as a black person, you always get taught, “Work hard, and then buy a house.” Then no one tells you, you need to maintain this house. And no one tells you that the 25, the average person who works at a job has got three strikes before they get fired. So if you mess up three times, you're gone, right. So your contract, maybe average is five years, it can be renewed five years, five years. Your bond is 23 years or 25 years average. In most cases, my job if I work in a corporate environment, or if I have a contract to do a campaign with whoever would never outlive the debt that I have. So that's the trap that I found myself. And we get trapped into the lie of a big deposit as well. So I bought an expensive house. And then I was convinced by the bank to pay a big deposit. Then when I did calculations, I realized that the deposit that I paid for the house, could have actually been installments for the house for three years. So I could have actually, with original debt, I could have lived in the house three years without paying installments, I'd taken the deposit and use it at installment over the years. But no one told me that, so that's the part of financial literacy where I feel like as people of colour were left behind of all those conversations, big deposits for things that we know that we won't keep forever. If someone told me that I won’t keep the house for 25 years, I would have never put that much money into the house in the first place. So I had a chance at least five years in to correct my mistake. And I voluntarily surrendered it and I had shortfall to pay and the shortfall was nothing compared to what I would have had to pay in the long run.
John Manyike 07:16
Yeah.
Eugene Khoza 07:17
So I'm glad that I was brave enough to have those decisions made by myself. I'm happier for it.
John Manyike 07:22
I think for the benefit of somebody who still that doesn't understand the concept of voluntary surrender, maybe just “Oh, walk us through there”. Why does this mean when you say voluntary surrender a car or property?
Eugene Khoza 07:34
Okay, I might be wrong, but it's provided for in the National Credit Act. If you take out debt, debt has insurance, that in case you die, or in case you're disabled, the insurance will pay for the debt, and you're not liable for it anymore. But there's also provision for in case you can't pay or maintain the debt, instead of getting yourself into the credit bureau or flagged, you go to a lender and you say to them, “Look, I can't do this anymore.” And then they say, “Okay, shap, we'll take the car, and then whatever we can sell the car for we will sell it. We'll find a fair price, because also we're trying to make money.”
John Manyike 08:07
Yeah.
Eugene Khoza 08:07
And you pay for the shortfall. So that's what I did with both of those big ticket items that I had, is I did voluntary surrender. And then the banks were like, “Okay, we'll see what we can do.” And then later on, you get a note that says, “You owe us this much, and then you pay that much and then you guys are clear.”
John Manyike 08:22
You have to be big mentally to be able to do that. Because there are people who hold on to things because they're worried that what will people say if suddenly I don't have this big house that they saw me take pictures and posting on Instagram? I don't have this car that I used to drive. And how do you overcome that mental challenge? You know, we're having to make peace that you know what I'm letting go of this thing regardless of what people will see.
Eugene Khoza 08:45
Sure. I think the universe curated it for me. I always say to people that I faced the one thing that people fear the most, which is losing a loved one, you know, or losing a child. So I realized I have no control over anything. And I think after I've lost that, and it wasn't in my powers, we had medical aid, we had a great house, we were living down the road from a hospital, but it still happened. So I realized that I have no control. I have no power. So I have to come to terms with loss. I'm a person now since six years ago, when the loss happened that I am a fair with loss. You know, I make peace with it. When things don't work out, I move on. I try something else. And I tried to be happy every day. Because I know that the three months is all I had, I would have had so much fun. You know, there's people who have houses with swimming pools that they don’t swim in, people have three cars that they don't drive. There is people that have six kids that they don't go to soccer matches, or will see them play. So once I realized how precious time was and the things that we hold on to that delay us and having fun and finding ourselves and enjoying people around us, then I realized that all of these things that I bought because of one of fear, expectation and insecurities. And once that happened, for me there was nothing else really that I was scared of. I am not scared anymore. I try things and if they fail, I continue with life.
John Manyike 09:53
Yeah. I mean, what you just said, just highlights the fact that the things we own don't define our identity or who we are at all. It's not my car, my house that defines my identity. So whether I have it or not, I'm still Eugene Khoza.
Eugene Khoza 10:10
Yeah, absolutely. And I also credit that to my mom as well. And she always raised us to believe that we are who we are. And what people think of us is neither here nor there, you know, that confidence only kicked in when I really needed it. Not when I was young, when my friends were leading me astray and say, “Hey, let's go play in another section, and we come back in the dark.” You know, that confeidence was not there, then. But then when I was older, like in my mid-30s that actually kicked-in, and I was remembering what she taught me. And only takes those kind of moments to realize that, you know, some people are friends for a season, and some people are friends for a reason. And you can't always blame them or rely on them, because everyone is on their own journey. So when things like that happened, I learned to just rely on myself and, and let go and move on
John Manyike 10:53
The loss of a loved one can have a devastating impact emotionally but very often we ignore the impact financially. What were one with some of your financial lessons from your loss?
Eugene Khoza 11:05
That death is expensive, in many ways. Like you said, it doesn't only cater for the funeral itself, it caters for the month, or perhaps the years that you won't be able to work, because you're not emotionally okay. And I think that's the part where insurance doesn't cover. You know, I've seen funeral plan. I've seen life cover, but then they're in the life cover there's no document that says yeah, also make provision for counseling, long term counseling, because a loss of a loved one is forever, you just get better. It doesn't go away. So what about people that needed more time than me? What about people that committed suicide, you know, because they couldn't deal with the loss of a loved one because they blame themselves. So you need money to survive a lot of things. And I feel like counseling is one of those things where I'm happy. I could afford it. Because I went through it for a couple of years. And it's not cheap at all, you know, I'm glad that I could afford it. But I can understand, or I can sympathize with people that couldn't afford to take a year, a month or even a week off, to mourn and process what was going on and rationalize it and so that they can move on and be around for the other kids.
John Manyike 12:10
Given your journey, what sort of professionals or experts did you surround yourself with?
Eugene Khoza 12:16
YouTube [laugh]. You know, 10 years ago, when people spoke about open source learning, you know, we used to see those videos from China of people going to buy parts and make their own phone. And we used to laugh at that, because we never understood what open source learning was. YouTube is the biggest tool that we have right now. I think it surpasses mainstream television. It even surpasses streaming, it's even in Africa is a threat to television and streaming. That's how much people are using YouTube, you can find out everything, how to bake a cake, how to make a bomb, how to deal with loss, how to fix your own Ferrari, if you have one or buy a scrapped one. So I find that YouTube became a wealth of knowledge for me, and especially during lockdown. Because I could rely on that to type in a question and I could find dozens of experts. Even people who have just gone through, it just want to find out how they could deal with things. And I found that open source learning is, is my go-to even now.
John Manyike 13:15
But technically, from what I'm hearing, it does not suddenly means replacing experts.
Eugene Khoza 13:20
No, no, not at all.
John Manyike 13:21
Your content on YouTube that you're talking about is actually experts talking on a specific subject that is subject matter experts on.
Eugene Khoza 13:29
So a professional for me face to face, it came to that point. So after watching videos on YouTube about how to deal with a situation, I knew I needed an expert, someone to sit with face to face. Then I sat with my, with my psychologist at the time. And then we had conversations over two years, like I said of therapy that helped me to get to where I was, but then she showed me things that I wouldn't have seen by myself or I would have eventually saw them but then it would have taken longer. So I'm glad that I had access to a professional at least.
John Manyike 13:57
I think another powerful thing from what I'm hearing is that you're doing a homework on whatever topic. So by the time you meet with an expert, you're not starting from zero.
Eugene Khoza 14:08
Yeah, you know exactly what you want. Conversation with financial advisors for me, always informed about what I read, or what I've seen on video, I don't need to make a phone call anymore. Or I don't need to have a brochure, I can just go on YouTube and listen to the topic. And then when I meet with a financial advisor, I can say talk to me about my finances, and also advise me because you know those two jobs, they're not mutually. So you always advise me here. Tell me about my finances. So I go prepared in most cases, because I do a little bit of research first, and I see what other experts feel and think about the topic. And then I get there and then I know exactly what I want and they can guide me and say, “No, this is not good for you.” And I wish I had that 10 years ago, 15 years ago when I bought my first house and my second house and got myself into debt and then paid huge amounts of deposit. If I knew what I know now, I wouldn't have made those mistakes and I would have made better investments.
John Manyike 14:56
Okay, have you ever used your personal experience as material for your routine whether it's a stand-up comedian or an actor or in the work that you produce.
Eugene Khoza 15:06
I do. But I have a problem with being self-indulgent. Right now I'm writing a book, I've just been offered a publishing deal. I'm writing a book. And I'm stuck in the first half of the book, because I feel like it's too self-indulgent, you know, I feel like there's other people who've gone through far worse than I have, or more than I have that can speak expertly about any topic that I feel like talking about. But I also understand that my own voice is unique as well, I'm learning that this is the chapter. I'm learning in my life in 2023, that my experiences matter. And they're worth sharing as well. So I am learning now that okay, I can use myself. But in comedy, I hardly ever use myself, I use other people that I see, you know, as a way of avoiding dealing with things myself, because people make the mistake of thinking that comedians are very open minded, but we're not. We're self-critical. And then we like looking at other people and going [Look a you].
John Manyike 15:57
What were your biggest financial lessons from the pandemic?
Eugene Khoza 16:03
That when it all comes down to it, everything costs money, to move around cost money, to do this thing and that cost money, people with money, I just privileged enough to avoid people like us who don't have that much money. During the pandemic, we all had to go to the store at certain times. So rich and poor, middle class and lower class, we met at the same time buying eggs, and cooking oil. So if you didn't have electricity at your house, you need money to pay for the electricity. And financially, I've learned that you cannot rely on one source to make money. I also realized that hard labor jobs are soon going to be a thing of the past.
Like I look at the strike in Tshwane for example. And I go if it is your job as a technician to wire houses so that they can have electricity, how long before, people don't need houses to be wired anymore, so that they can be electricity. So those hard labor jobs taught me a lot. Like I said, also, the program that I wrote, also taught me through technology that people can do a training course without being in the building. So it's a threat that's facing everybody, me, or someone who owns that gigantic building to think, do you actually need people to be inside there to justify the cost of having this gigantic property? So I'm learning that in a microscopic level. And I think creating and owning intellectual property that can survive any pandemic is the way to go. And that's been my quest ever since.
John Manyike 17:28
How are you going about building a financial legacy?
Eugene Khoza 17:31
I think my biggest concern right now is how can I help other people realize that there are sources of income that were hidden from us not by anybody, but just by the system, or by where we found ourselves geographically. And also based on the education that we have, and the access to information that we have. That's my biggest bone to pick with the world right now. And I'm very big on podcasts. Because I was excited when I heard about this podcast and like, anywhere where there's a podcast point me there, because I feel like before, you would need to go to a TV station as old mutual and buy an advert to put up this message.
Now you can use the environment that you have, you can use experts that you know, to take the information out there to everybody in a palatable manner in a way that doesn't feel forced, in a way that they can consume it their own time and luxury, and also choose what to listen to and what not to listen to. So I am more obsessed with making information available to people. And letting South Africans know that broadcasting their stories is actually the way to go right now, you know, and you can make money from it and you can make millions of dollars in the US telling us about how they feel. But we don't do the same in this country. We don't tell people all over the world about how we feel. And then people don't watch us and then they don't know. And then we wonder why people are so ignorant about the world.
John Manyike 18:49
Yeah.
Eugene Khoza 18:50
So I want people to know that that's my legacy I want. I wish for most young people to understand that their stories are valuable. And that technology and open source media is out there for them and new media is out there for them to carve a living. You don't have to go study seven years to be an engineer to earn 80,000 Rand anymore, you can earn 80,000 Rand a day, from saying what you want to say.
John Manyike 19:10
I think that's so big, what you just said that you know, because you focusing on how you empower others, you know, but people sometimes forget that. When you give him to others, the one who waters gets watered, it doesn't mean you become poor by pouring into others, you can actually make money by empowering others, although your ultimate goal is not really about making profit out of it. Which takes me to my next question. I mean, what projects are you working on now?
Eugene Khoza 19:35
I am currently writing turning my last stand up show into a book and I have pitched and created a few podcasts that are going to be hitting the airwaves soon mine included over there and there's one that I did during the pandemic as well. My goal right now is just to have the most IP I can have under my belt and see other people flourishing and having a good time doing it. You know, I feel like after the pandemic, we all deserve to have a good time. Like, life is so short, we lost people in a matter of weeks sometimes that we saw them just the other day, you know.
So I wish people could just realize that there's more avenues to make a living out there and you can maximize on your time by spending time with your family and creating other avenues and empowering people. And I feel so rewarded, because in the last year or so, I've been able to travel the world, I've been able to meet with other people. I mean, in my podcast, I have 24 episodes under my belt, and none of the guests that I've had a South African, all of them are Hollywood actors, or directors or producers, or creators, those are people that were generous enough to give their time, when we have a six hour, sometimes an eight hour time difference to me and they didn't even know me. So I feel like that lesson that I learned there, I'm trying to do the same. Now I gave up my time freely. And I'm so surprised at how many people are giving their time for me so freely, and I'm able to earn far more than what I was able to earn when I was too focused on comedy. And I wish I knew all of this earlier.
John Manyike 20:56
What would your advice be to anyone who wants to make a difference in the world in their area of interest, given their talents?
Eugene Khoza 21:03
Just try, you know, just try, try and try. I was encouraged that when I was young, and I never understood, my mom would say try. Try it again. I failed, yeah, failing, try and try it again. So I impart that to my daughter. And I can see how she tries, then she fails. And then she tries again, next time she doesn't have to do it again. And people must just try the thing that you love the most is the thing that you're meant to do. Sometimes you have a job just in between just to carry you through. But it should exactly be that. When your job gives you five year contract, look at the five years as time that they're borrowing you to be financially stable so that you can be brave enough to do what you really want to do.
Even in radio, you have a five year contract. But it's actually every 30 days for the next five years that they're going to, do we like you, do you like us, do we like you or do you like us? So I wish people who are everywhere in these buildings who are working in companies and they feel aggrieved instead of feeling aggrieved and angry in traffic or angry at other people. Just use the time to think about what you love the most, what you're passionate about something that you do for free, that is your go-to. Start something small real estate company, Google, go on YouTube, look at what you can do, start writing, start cooking, doing other people's there, those small little things have a way of making people happy. And I'm on this happiness campaign. I just want people to spread more happiness, you know. So I think once we can do that, we can see this economy growing, the gig economy is no longer a gig economy.
It's a real, real economy. People are making millions of Rands doing what they love. So I think now is the time, the window is going to close. I feel like the pandemic put us on an equal footing with the rest of the world, when it comes to things that happen on the internet, or things that are IP driven. But as time goes on, it's going to be saturated, that window is going to close. So I wish everybody could just take advantage of the data that they have. And the smartphones that they have, and the laptops that they have and opportunity that they have in the buildings that they work in and create something for themselves.
John Manyike 22:56
Eugene, they say dynamite comes in small [You understand this matter?], you know, so it is a reason why you're not a giant that you are a giant.
Eugene Khoza 23:05
Thank you so much.
John Manyike 23:06
It's really been wonderful having you here. And I trust anyone who's watching or listening to this podcast will pick up some nuggets in terms of how they navigate their financial journey.
Eugene Khoza 23:16
Now I'd like to say, I think first time I met you was exactly a year ago in a conference that your company was hosting. And I was one of the people that said but new media, you guys are not doing anything about new media. And look at you now, you're already on the process of doing it and you've taken it so far over a year that you've been doing this. So congratulations. I think I'm very proud of you. And anytime you want to have me, I'm here for you.
John Manyike 23:36
Thank you so much.
Eugene Khoza 23:37
Thank you so much.