Old Mutual On The Money
Old Mutual On The Money
Ishmael Morabe on Rebuilding his Financial Future after Struggling with Addiction
For more than 30 years, Ishmael Morabe has been entertaining music lovers across genres. Yet life has not been without struggles and subsequent financial complications. Ishmael opened up to our Head of Financial Education, John Manyike, about his addiction, recovery, the importance of getting financial knowledge at a young age, and how he is now rebuilding his financial future. Don’t miss this insightful interview!
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Old Mutual 00:00
Welcome to the On The Money Podcast with John Manyike.
John Manyike 00:04
Hi Ishmael. Thanks for joining us.
Ishmael Morabe 00:06
Yes, yes, yes.
John Manyike 00:06
How’s it going?
Ishmael Morabe 00:07
I’m good.
John Manyike 00:08
That’s good. Thanks for joining us, my brother.
Ishmael Morabe 00:10
I know it's a pleasure, man.
John Manyike 00:11
I was saying off the record that you are a diehard, you refuse to die.
Ishmael Morabe 00:17
I’m a diehard. They don't call me die hard for nothing..
John Manyike 00:20
[Laughs] Oh, you watched that one.
Ishmael Morabe 00:24
[Laughs] No, no, no, it's a matter of just like, keep fighting, always trying to get the better version of me, you know, and keep moving forward and pushing that’s what we are here for man, you know, just to be better than yesterday.
John Manyike 00:37
Apart from the word, Ishmael, do you have any other name?
Ishmael Morabe 00:40
Yeah, I have Ishmael. And then I have, my other name is Molefe, and the other one is Ntetwenhle, so I have three names.
John Manyike 00:48
Okay. Talk to me about the third one [laughs].
Ishmael Morabe 00:54
Okay, Ntetwenhle because, okay, I'm half Sotho, half Xhosa. Xhosa on my mothers side. So, Ntetwenhle is from my mother's father.
John Manyike 01:05
What does it mean?
Ishmael Morabe 01:06
It means beautiful language, beautiful talk.
John Manyike 01:09
Okay.
Ishmael Morabe 01:10
That's what it means.
John Manyike 01:10
And I guess that sums up your music.
Ishmael Morabe 01:13
I actually was thinking about it. And then I realized, maybe that's, you know, it has to do with that. So, but, I never really went into depth in terms of finding out what is the real, real meaning you know.
John Manyike 01:24
So, where were you born? Where did you grow up, go to school, and all that?
Ishmael Morabe 01:30
Okay. I was born in a village called Emafula, which is in Delareyville, right. I know a lot of people don't know about that.
John Manyike 01:37
Which province is that in?
Ishmael Morabe 01:38
It's in Northwest, Delareyville, then we moved to Rustenburg, a place called, well, it used to be called Hartbeesfontaine and then later changed to be called Lethabong. Growing up, I went to school there, you know, primary school, secondary school. And then when I came to Joburg, my parents moved to Klerksdorp, which is still in the Northwest. So that's, right now I would say home, where my mother and father are, and where my family is Klerksdorp, Jouberton.
John Manyike 02:10
Okay. And school?
Ishmael Morabe 02:11
I sort of left school. I don't have a matric. Yeah, so I came to Joburg trying to do this music thing in a way affected my going to school, because I tried to go to school in Tsakane, working here and traveling to Tsakane every morning, but that didn't work out. You know, so yeah.
John Manyike 02:31
You know, some people think that if you don't have a matric, it means it's the end of your life. It's not.
Ishmael Morabe 02:35
No, no, definitely no, it's not, definitely not. It's just one of those. But I mean, obviously it helps, education helps. Education helps in terms of, yeah, we live in a society where it's required, and knowledge is required. But it's not the end of the day if you didn't finish school.
John Manyike 02:53
Yeah. At what stage did you discover your passion for music?
Ishmael Morabe 02:57
From as far back as I can remember. From really a child, the only thing was just music in my mind. Other kids would be going there and doing, playing football, and I was always on the radio listening to the radio, yeah, as far back as I can remember. Even before I could even start singing, I was already in love with music.
John Manyike 03:20
You know, a lot of people might not know that your passion for music. I mean, you move to, from Northwest to Joburg to pursue this career before you met the likes of Mr Chicco Twala, Mdu Masilela,. You actually at some point, you're hustling. I mean, you even worked as a cleaner in Hillbrow.
Ishmael Morabe 03:41
I worked as a petrol attendant in Hillbrow. And also worked as I don't know what you call the people that flip the burgers?
John Manyike 03:50
Oh, yeah. I just call them flip burgers.
Ishmael Morabe 03:53
Yeah, the chips and … yeah, actually not far from here. Yeah, so those were the type of jobs I did when I came to Joburg, like small things, but I was not very successful at them. Because I was really, I was always at the club, always where the music was. Because you know, back then in places like, Hillbrow and Yeoville, there was always like, an open mic place, a place where you can, where you can go and sing. You know, whatever, whatever, with a band and stuff. So, I was more drawn into that than work, so it affected my school and work. Because you’re at the club singing there, and then you have to make it in the morning. Sometimes it's you’re tired.
John Manyike 04:36
So, how did your breakthrough come about? I mean, who did you meet? Who believed you, who actually pulled you out and said, “Oh man, this guy, let this guy shine?”
Ishmael Morabe 04:45
It started when I actually started working with the Chicco Twala, yeah. Because back then, I used to be a backup singer for Chicco Twala. So I think that introduced me to the industry. You know, I mean, it was nothing big, but it really, at least one foot in and stuff. But then where I was really like, when it started, people started noticing me was when I joined Prophets of Da from City Cape Town, you know. Because there we started touring, we started just being on TV, we started doing things, you know, so the visibility was there. You know, people kind of noticing. “Okay, who’s this kid. Even though I was a dancer back then, you know, in the group, but yeah, people kind of like, took note. Yeah, and then, but the big, big one was when Skeem started. The Skeem they did, Waar Was Jy, yeah, that, that really put us in the map. And people started to say, oh okay, there’s something there.
John Manyike 05:46
Who else have you worked with?
Ishmael Morabe 05:48
I mean, the people that I worked with, from the beginning that I really appreciate that I have so much to do with what's happening with me today. I worked with Mdu Masilela, I worked with Mandla Spikiri, they had a band called MM Deluxe. So, we used to go around townships performing. I was a lead singer in the band, and stuff like that I work with those people. And, yeah, those are the people that really like, you know, made me just get familiar with the music industry and stuff, even with some studio sessions and stuff like that. Mandla Spikiri, Mdu, yeah, Chicco Twala, you know, I mean, that's before even the POCs and Skeems, and all that stuff.
John Manyike 06:38
So, who has had the biggest influence in your life, musically, but also life in general?
Ishmael Morabe 06:44
I would say Lance, Lance Stehr of Muthaland records, I would say, Arthur Mafokate at 999, you know what I mean? Because that's when, you know, big things really started happening in my career, you know, where I was, like, making hits, music selling, you know, touring, performing and making some money from it, you know.
John Manyike 07:03
What are some of the biggest highlights in your life?
Ishmael Morabe 07:06
There are so many, and they're different, okay. The first one was like, when we, when I joined Prophets of Da City. It was weird because I joined Prophets of Da City, and two weeks after, like, from streets, from nothing, from nothing happening to actually go in and touring, going to Europe and just performing all over Europe, you know.
John Manyike 07:27
What are some of the countries you travelled there?
Ishmael Morabe 07:29
We did almost everything. Copenhagen, Denmark, France, Germany, Amsterdam, London, Sweden, just like everywhere pretty much in Europe. At a very young age, it was, that was like a highlight and even getting to perform with some of the biggest stars back then, when my Fugees, Lauryn Hill, James Brown and people like that you know. That was like, wow! But back then, for me, it was like, it was, I wouldn't say it was not a big thing, but I didn't see what was happening. And it was like, it happened so quickly, that it's like, okay, and then later on, I started realizing, wow, those were big things happening back then, you know, but obviously, back then you couldn't see because I was just like, in the spur of the moment, type vibe, just enjoy, just loving the music and, yeah, just being in all those countries, and then just being happy that I’m on stage pretty much.
John Manyike 08:34
Well, I mean, that it has always been your passion.
Ishmael Morabe 08:35
Yeah, you know.
John Manyike 08:36
Yeah. So, I guess with this travelling, going to Europe, and you know, starting having those big hits, meant also money started rolling a bit and so on.
Ishmael Morabe 08:48
Yeah, no, definitely. I started seeing money coming in. I mean, I mean, for me, I come from a background where there was no money at all. You know, I've come from family, no money, nothing, to actually be like, being able to make money from music. You know, during those times, it was like, amazing. It was like a blessing. Yeah, of course money started coming in, started affording things you know, being able to rent out the flat and you know, stay there, buy a small car, and things like that. Even send money back home, and things like that, helping people, you know.
John Manyike 09:27
If you were to give advice to your younger self now financially, what would you say?
Ishmael Morabe 09:34
Yo, [laughs], I would be like, you know what, you young boy, sit down. Get a glass of water. You know, let me school you. This money thing is not a joke, bro, save your money, you know, and when money comes save it. Money is not always going to come the way you think it is. Because you know, when money comes in the music industry, obviously when the money comes, I mean, it comes, you feel like it's going to be there forever. You feel like he's going to keep coming. You know what I mean? And if you don't have a good head, or good advice, it's going to come in, it's going to go, you know, what I mean? No, definitely, I would say, save your money. Don't play with money, you know, invest, do all those things that obviously back then I didn't know, you know, do not play with money. Especially, for me, for musicians, you know, people in the arts, money, it's not like, every month, you have a salary, you know.
John Manyike 10:36
No guarantee.
Ishmael Morabe 10:36
Yeah, you know, there's, there's times when it's really, really dry, you know, and then there's times when it comes, it's like a bulk. And then there's times where there's nothing, you know, and so it really takes a skill, I think, yo, for people in the arts, man, we needed a school. Just money management, you know. But obviously, now it's better because the information is out there, you know, you can actually like Google anything, you know, fingertips, it’s there, information is more than it used to be before you know.
John Manyike 11:08
Yeah. Look, the good news about you is that, look, you've been quite open about some of your, your darkest moments, some of your lowest points in life. Like when you hit rock bottom, because of drugs and all that. How did that start in the first place?
Ishmael Morabe 11:24
I think it always boils down to not having a good head about things, you know what I mean? And all the money just coming in, like rough, you know, like, from having no money and just money coming? Like coming in a bulk, you know where you really don't know what to do with it. And, and just the lifestyle choices and you know, are certain things they will creep up on you. It's not like, they’re like, “Oh, one minute, you having a good time, you know, on top of the world.” And the next you hooked, you know.
John Manyike 11:50
How much were spending per weekend on drugs at the time when, when you hit that snap?
Ishmael Morabe 11:55
Honestly, I don't know. I don't know how much but because most of the time, like when you're in that space you are, it's not really like you always the one that spending, you're with people. People are chipping in and stuff like that. So, it's like, it's a, it's like going to a bar and having a drink you know. And some today, somebody's going to buy in the next round is you, so is that kind of situation. So, yeah, but definitely like a lot of money without realizing, was spent. Was wasted, I would say.
John Manyike 12:22
Before you came out of it, was it really affecting your money?
Ishmael Morabe 12:26
When you have money, you don't really see that. You know, because when you have money, you have money you're spending, it's there, it's coming, you know, but you only realized when the money started drying up, that okay. You know, if some of the choices that are made, I wouldn't have spent this much. I wouldn't have, you know what I mean, you know, certain things, take your money away from you, unnecessary things. You know, like substance abuse and stuff like that.
John Manyike 12:47
So, the rehabilitation process, I mean, how did that come about?
Ishmael Morabe 13:31
I would say for my experience, anything. You don't want to stop? You’re not gonna stop? Yeah, I don't care who says what to you. And I don't care what kind of help you can get, you can go to all the rehabs in the world. But if you don't want to stop, you're not gonna stop. You understand? And it took me to actually wanting to stop myself and be like, “Yo, this is this is too much.” This is, I mean, I've been to rehabs, but then relapsed.
John Manyike 13:15
So, you've been to a couple of rehabs now?
Ishmael Morabe 13:18
Yeah, I've been to one, and then I relapsed. And then I'll stop. I'm like, I can do this now, and I’ll stop, and go back, stop, go back, you know what I mean? And it was like, I couldn't win the battle, then, you know. Until I was like, I’ve decided, like, I really, you know, it came from inside, from deep inside, that you know what? For my health and for, for just the right way of living. I need to stop, this is not my thing. You know, this is definitely not for me, you know, because obviously, I couldn't control it. I couldn't, I couldn't function proper, you know, under those circumstances. It was messing up more than actually like doing anything good for me. Either I had to lose everything or stop, you know what I mean? I chose to stop. And for me, it was like, I think the best decision I've made. And I thank God, he gave me that power that strength to actually be like, “Nah.”
John Manyike 14:12
Do you think that might have affected your career in music?
Ishmael Morabe 14:15
Yeah, you know, it affects everything.
John Manyike 14:17
Yeah.
Ishmael Morabe 14:18
Definitely affects everything. It affects not just my career, it affects my relationships, it affects my family, it affects, because it's my life, you know, that affects everything about my life.
John Manyike 14:28
When you decide that I'm coming out of this, what are the things that one needs to be doing in order to avoid relapsing after rehabs?
Ishmael Morabe 14:38
Like, ah no, I’m cured, I'm good. You know, I mean, obviously, they give you rules, they're like, you know, you have to avoid people, places and things.
John Manyike 14:47
People, places and things.
Ishmael Morabe 14:47
People, places and things that would draw you back into it, or remind you into it, into those kind of vibes, but I ignored those things. I was like, ah, it’s nothing, I can do this, you know, but then, before you know it, you're back in it, you know. So, it's like a back and forth situation, and back and forth, when you come back is worse than before you know in order. But it really changed when I started kind of like praying really like because even here, they tell you, they're like you, you have to believe in something, a higher power. You know, talk to your higher power, you know, because it's almost as if you can't do it on your own. You can't be trying, for example, quit alcohol. But you at the club every day, you're not really going to win.
John Manyike 15:33
And you’re hanging around people who are drinking, and you say you want to quit?
Ishmael Morabe 15:35
You understand what I am saying. Yeah, you're not going to win, you know. So, until I kind of like, you know, paid attention to the rooms. I felt like, okay, “Cool, no, I'm good.”
John Manyike 15:46
How long have you been clean now?
Ishmael Morabe 15:47
From last year November.
John Manyike 15:48
So, we're looking at about four months or so.
Ishmael Morabe 15:52
And for me, for me, I know for four months to somebody, like, that's nothing but a bit.
John Manyike 15:57
But for you, it’s a victory.
Ishmael Morabe 15:58
It's a big, it's a big thing, because I mean, back then I couldn't last for a week. So, for me it's a big thing,
John Manyike 16:06
But for how long have you been stuck in that, in that, in that challenge?
Ishmael Morabe 16:09
I would say, I've been, “Oh, you can say in 10 years”but this time is definitely a real thing, you know what I mean?
John Manyike 16:15
I'm happy for you that at least you're seeing progress. So, focusing on the business side of things, I mean, I believe you have a music studio.
Ishmael Morabe 16:22
I have the recording home studio, yeah.
John Manyike 16:24
What is your vision to get yourself back to where you want to be?
Ishmael Morabe 16:29
We're pretty much what's happening right now is, I'm more focused in, you know, dropping music. And also, I'm planning on just helping other upcoming artist, you know, recording them and just doing musical things, but yeah.
John Manyike 16:44
Look, I know you. When you do your thing, you do your thing.
Ishmael Morabe 16:46
Yeah, I don't know. I have some stuff that is going to drop then is sick, that's insane. And I worked with Motherland’s records. So definitely, we have something brewing, beautiful. And there is also a Jozi project that might happen. Yeah. So, a few good things that are on the pipeline.
John Manyike 17:08
Okay. You know, that's what I love about it, you know, and want to say, that as much as there is the other side that you come out off, and you've come out of the, you are aiming at something, you've got something to aim at. And in doing so, I mean, that's, that's the force you're looking for, to encourage you to drive you to move forward.
Ishmael Morabe 17:26
Yes, definitely. I feel like, if I didn't have anything to do, it would make it a bit hard for me, you know, not like, I mean, obviously, it's things that are always been wanting to do, that I've been doing, just because of the situation where I was, it was really hindering just the progress and the, you know, and everything, and the focus. You know it was just like, was really affecting the focus, but now I'm still doing the same things, but clear focus, you know, I have clear goals and, and just like, yeah, yeah, and just the responsibility, you know, and then those things I wanted to do. I can do them better this time. You know, because there's no obstruction or any disturbance. You know what I mean? I’m looking, I'm taking that energy I was using for bad, I’m pouring it into, you know what I mean, into, into a positive thing, into something that can give me life and give me prosperity, you know. So, I'm really, I'm happy, I'm looking forward. I feel good inside.
John Manyike 18:23
Yeah. So, where do you see yourself over the next 5 to 10 years?
Ishmael Morabe 18:26
Besides killing the airwaves and just, I'm the type of person that I'm always going to be in the music whether behind or in the front. But I see great things. I see a person that owns, that's going to be having, you know, owning properties, whether it be a flat in Maboneng, or whatever, you know. I'm going that direction you know. Because I think the, the, even though I'm a late bloomer, but the information that I have now, I think can give me life, you know, and can bring me prosperity.
John Manyike 18:56
Yeah. So, financially speaking, what are you going to do different?
Ishmael Morabe 19:00
I mean, obviously, there's going to be more information coming, more knowledge coming and wisdom. But what I'm seeing right now is just me getting into the whole property vibe, you know, even if it's just like getting a small shack and small place and building up to it, whether getting a flat or buying, you know, small, small, go forward, save some money, invest in good things in things that can help in the future.
John Manyike 19:26
Yeah, yeah. So, what support system do you have?
Ishmael Morabe 19:29
My support system really has been the people that I worked with in Motherland records, you know, they've been very supportive. And they also played a big role in me, you know, being clean, because there's so many things that are at stake now. You know what I mean? I believe I’m a very talented artist, and producer, and, you know, that was really hindering my progress. And with this clarity that's happening, and them supporting me and knowing that we can do this. It's the first step.
John Manyike 20:06
So, when you look at the last 10 years versus the last four months, is there any particular thing or things that you are doing differently that you think is the reason why you will feel good about yourself? You're optimistic about your future, and you're conquering this thing?
Ishmael Morabe 20:23
Yeah, definitely. I pray more, I'm home more, more focused, and more, just taking care of myself and loving myself. Because, you know, I think I've been a people pleaser more than loving myself. You know, so I think the more I start to love myself, the more I actually like, there’s progress, you know, the more I feel good. You know, obviously, without being selfish, but loving myself. You know, I think there's, I see a lot of good results, you know, with everything really, with what my health, it’s just life. Because it's not just one thing, it affects the whole entire thing.
John Manyike 21:05
You know, looking at you, one wouldn’t say you're actually 51 years there?
Ishmael Morabe 21:08
Oh yeah. Yeah, no, I guess it's a whole blessing thing. But obviously, I don't see myself, I take it as a compliment, thank you, yeah.
John Manyike 21:19
Yeah. Because, I mean, I would imagine, at least the advantage with being in the music industry, that you don't have to stress so much about, about, you know, people who have a nine to five, they tend to think about retirement age and all that. But of course, I mean, musically, it's really about being relevant for you to stay in music and actually be able to sustain your life. Because I mean, you've been in this, in this game for many, many years, chief.
Ishmael Morabe 21:48
You can say I've been in the industry, give or take 30.
John Manyike 21:52
If you've been in the music industry for 30 years, we think that 30 years it is going to be different generations. How do you stay relevant?
Ishmael Morabe 22:01
First of all, it's like I love music. I love music, any genre. A good song is a good song, it doesn't matter. Whether it be rock, Kwaito, Mapiano, whatever R&B. So, me being a music lover. I don't judge music as much, you know what I mean? I don't, I'm not one of those guys of like, “Ah, you know, our generation, our kwaito was better or this Mapiano thing is what what.” You know what I mean? I look at music as a friend, you know, so I always involve myself in the, in the listening of the music as well, you know, so knowing what's hot now, and knowing what works. I think it helps because if you're in the music business, you have to know what's happening now and find ways to be part of it and how you can be part of what's happening right now. Instead of just like, being trapped in the past. Here, the past was good. But what's happening right now? You have to be part of it. You see everywhere in business everywhere is like, you know, BMW makes a car. They're not going to be like, “Oh yeah, we're not making any cars any more than the one we did in 88 was the one”, you know, you see, they always come with different models.” Which music is like that too? You have to always like, you know, find yourself there in the new one. Find yourself how can I squeeze myself in there.
John Manyike 23:23
Ishmael, I'm really appreciative of your coming here and opening up and sharing with us. Yeah, some of these insights about your life, your journey and all that.
Ishmael Morabe 23:34
Yeah. You know, anytime my brother. And I hope, if this can help somebody, you know, from learning from my mistakes because somebody, people can learn, you can learn from somebody's mistake to not to do it, you know, that's what we're here for, to show each other in life. This way, not this way, you know, yeah.
John Manyike 23:51
So, finally, if you were to give advice to young people getting into the music industry, knowing what you've learned, with some of the tough decisions you've had to take in your life, good or bad, what would you say to young people?
Ishmael Morabe 24:08
I would say to young people, I mean, young people in music today, they don't realize how fortunate they are. They’re very fortunate because all the information they need is on their phone. All, 100%. All of this is on your phone. So, use it, use that, you know you, anything you want to know, it's on your phone, you don't even, you can even be out there in a farm away from nobody by yourself. And you can work from anywhere in the world. You know what I mean? So, you guys are blessed, the now generation in music, so no excuses. You have everything you need.
John Manyike 24:47
Thank you so much. Thank you for your time.
Ishmael Morabe 24:49
You’re welcome. Appreciate it. Thank you so much.
John Manyike 24:52
Thank you so much, all the best.
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