Old Mutual On The Money
Old Mutual On The Money
Pirates Legend Bruce Ramokgadi on Football, Life, and Money
Forced by injury to retire at the peak of his soccer career, Buccaneers legend Bruce Ramokgadi came through the ranks when professional soccer players were not rewarded as they are today. Our Head of Financial Education, John Manyike, spoke to Bruce about the financial lessons he learnt along the way, including his financial tips for young people. Tune in for an up close and personal discussion about football, life and money.
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Old Mutual 00:00
Welcome to the On The Money Podcast with John Manyike.
John Manyike 00:05
Hey, how’s it going Bruce?
Bruce Ramokgadi 00:06
I’m good, how’s it going with you, John?
John Manyike 00:08
I’m good. I thought you would come wearing your Pirates t-shirt.
Bruce Ramokgadi 00:12
No, that’s when I promote Pirates, now we’re not promoting Pirates. We’re speaking about money.
John Manyike 00:20
Maybe. Let’s start with where you were born, family wise, and you know, what type of family you come from?
Bruce Ramokgadi 00:27
Yeah, I was born in bred in Soweto. Phefeni, to be precise.
John Manyike 00:32
Okay.
Bruce Ramokgadi 00:33
Orlando West, Phefeni, just a street away from Kaizer's home.
John Manyike 00:41
From the opposition?
Bruce Ramokgadi 00:42
Yeah, from the opposition. Kaizer Motaung. I grew up with my grandmother, you know us and our grandmothers.
John Manyike 00:52
Oh, you were brought up by your grandmother?
Bruce Ramokgadi 00:53
No, I wasn’t brought up by my grandmother per se, because she passed away while I was still young.
John Manyike 01:00
Okay.
Bruce Ramokgadi 01:02
So, I wasn’t brought up by my aunt.
John Manyike 01:03
Oh, okay. So, and then, siblings?
Bruce Ramokgadi 01:07
Yeah, I’ve got two brothers and one big sister.
John Manyike 01:12
Okay.
Bruce Ramokgadi 01:11
Yes, and we also lived with our cousins. It was a five-room house. You know how it is.
John Manyike 01:18
You were all in the same house.
Bruce Ramokgadi 01:18
We were all there, one will sleep on the bed and the other will sleep on the floor, we alternate...
John Manyike 01:24
You rotated.
Bruce Ramokgadi 01:25
We rotated.
John Manyike 01:26
So, school?
Bruce Ramokgadi 01:27
Yeah, I went to uh, I started my lower primary and a school that is now disbanded, it was called Phuthi. It was a Sesotho speaking school. And then, higher primary, I went to Nkathuto, in Dube. And then high school, it was Orlando West.
John Manyike 01:45
Okay.
Bruce Ramokgadi 01:45
High, yeah, where…
John Manyike 01:47
So, you travelled around a lot between neighborhoods?
Bruce Ramokgadi 01:49
Yeah, I was around the neighborhood. So at Orlando West, if you know, people like, Edward Motale, Phil Masinga, Gesond Vilakazi, Arthur Zwane, the now Kaizer chiefs coach, all attended the school.
John Manyike 02:02
So, your love for soccer, where did it start? When did you discover that you had a gift?
Bruce Ramokgadi 02:09
No, actually, I started kicking the ball at the age of two years, three years.
John Manyike 02:15
Okay.
Bruce Ramokgadi 02:16
Because my father was a Kaizer Chiefs goalkeeper.
John Manyike 02:21
Okay.
Bruce Ramokgadi 02:23
He’s a legend, Banks Setlhodi.
John Manyike 02:24
Banks Setlhodi, yes.
Bruce Ramokgadi 02:24
So, it runs in the blood.
John Manyike 02:28
So, your father didn’t recruit you because of your talent?
Bruce Ramokgadi 02:31
No, they recruited me a lot, they recruited me a lot, but unfortunately, I grew up with my mother’s side of the family and they are fans of Pirates. I also preferred the type of soccer the club played.
John Manyike 02:44
Okay.
Bruce Ramokgadi 02:45
Yes, so… I liked.
John Manyike 02:47
So, your father didn’t win there.
Bruce Ramokgadi 02:48
No, he didn’t win, he could never convince me.
John Manyike 02:50
So, the aunt that was raising you, who was she a fan of?
Bruce Ramokgadi 02:52
She was a fan of Pirates.
John Manyike 02:54
Okay.
Bruce Ramokgadi 02:54
Everyone in my mother’s family was a fan of Pirates.
John Manyike 02:56
Yeah. So, I'm sure you were avoiding that, if you were a fan of Chiefs, your family wouldn’t dish food up for you.
Bruce Ramokgadi 03:01
No, they didn’t have any problems with Chiefs or Pirates fans. But then honestly, they wanted me to go to school, more than anything else. They didn’t even care that I play soccer, or anything like that. But they could see that there would be recruiters coming in and out asking to come and play for them. They only became interested when I started playing professional soccer.
John Manyike 03:30
So, who discovered that you have a talent and maybe you should play for one of the big teams.
Bruce Ramokgadi 03:37
No one discovered me. I was moving around between different teams, you know, in the townships, you’ll play for one team, and then you play for another team. You see, so Jolidee Matongo, the former mayor, may his soul rest in peace. Yeah, he was my friend. So he played for a team called in Diepkloof called Greenlee Karengers.
John Manyike 03:58
Ah.
Bruce Ramokgadi 03:58
So, he asked me to join him at Greenlee Karengers. That’s when I joined Greenlee Karengers, and we played against Orlando Pirates juniors. We beat them I think three or four nil that day. It was a mini tournament. Pirates guys, they asked me to join them but now I said, “No”. Not now, you see, and then I played for another team in Dube township, again played a state game. We were playing for money, in Mfolo, and then they came serious, they became serious and then the came to my home.
John Manyike 04:35
Yeah.
Bruce Ramokgadi 04:36
Please come join us.
John Manyike 04:37
They didn’t come with groceries when they came?
Bruce Ramokgadi 04:38
No, I was still young then.
John Manyike 04:42
I heard that they used to come with groceries when they were recruiting young players.
Bruce Ramokgadi 04:44
They used to come with groceries when they wanted you to play professionally.
John Manyike 04:47
Yeah.
Bruce Ramokgadi 04:47
Yeah, but then, for the amateur leagues, they just would come and ask, please come join us.
John Manyike 04:52
Yeah.
Bruce Ramokgadi 04:52
And then I joined them, and I played for Pirates for I think it was the under 15s.
John Manyike 04:57
Okay.
Bruce Ramokgadi 04:57
Yeah, and we are playing against senior teams that time, playing tournaments with the senior teams. We would also be curtain-raisers now and then, after the senior team has played. And then one guy, Bra Tsitso, he was the Pirates bus driver. And he saw potential in me, and then he asked the management tournament, can you please let this guy come and train in the first team? I was 15 years old by that time. I went to go and train now and then, but not full time. Sometimes, I’d play for the reserves, they promoted me to reserve site. So, I was playing for two teams, basically, so, yeah, Bra Tsitso then introduced me to the first team, I trained, and at the time, the team comprised of people like, Bazooka Seshweni...
John Manyike 05:53
Bashin Mahlangu.
Bruce Ramokgadi 05:54
Bashin Mahlangu.
John Manyike 05:55
Killa, eh …
Bruce Ramokgadi 05:58
Yeah, Kamanga Mbazo. Yeah, that time, Metroblitz Sithole. I was very very young, I was still very very young.
John Manyike 06:06
Professionally, which year would you say you are recognized as a…?
Bruce Ramokgadi 06:10
1993. Actually was about to give up. Because I had been training since the age of 15 years, training with the first team. And nothing was happening. So, I was about to give up, I told myself I was leaving this thing.
John Manyike 06:25
At the time, you were about, twenty, how many years?
Bruce Ramokgadi 06:28
No, no, no. At the time, I was 18.
John Manyike 06:31
Oh, 18.
Bruce Ramokgadi 06:32
Yeah, three years later, 1993, I was about to give up. I figure out what to do. And then Under 20 national team, Bra Shakes, it was coached by Bra Shakes at the time, he called me to come in try. The Pirates coach at the time, we were playing, COSAFA.
John Manyike 06:53
Who was the coach at that time?
Bruce Ramokgadi 06:54
You mean the coach for…
John Manyike 06:55
For Pirates?
Bruce Ramokgadi 06:56
For Pirates, it was Mike Makaab. At the time, it was 1994.
John Manyike 06:59
Okay, yeah, so a year before CAF.
Bruce Ramokgadi 07:02
Yeah, a year before CAF. So, he came to watch us at Orlando Stadium. I played very, very well. Even Jomo Sono wanted to sign me, Kaizer Chiefs became serious. He didn't know who was playing for, you see. But then I was already signed for Pirates by that time. Yeah.
John Manyike 07:22
Yeah. You were amongst the team that won the CAF that year?
Bruce Ramokgadi 07:25
Champions League, yeah.
John Manyike 07:26
And when Jerry Sikhosana played the…
Bruce Ramokgadi 07:28
Yeah, yeah.
John Manyike 07:28
Scored the famous goal that brought the cup. And then you got challenged by an injury.
Bruce Ramokgadi 07:33
Yeah, the injury actually, it started when I came back for my second stint with Pirates.
John Manyike 07:41
Okay.
Bruce Ramokgadi 07:42
We were playing WITS, and then Ashley Makhanya tackled me and then my knee. Since that day, I was never, I was never the same.
John Manyike 07:49
You even know who hurt you.
Bruce Ramokgadi 07:51
Yeah.
John Manyike 07:52
I hope you forgave him.
Bruce Ramokgadi 07:53
No, no, it's part of the game, I don’t have any beef because it’s part of the game.
John Manyike 08:00
So, at the time you were playing for Pirates, how much were you earning in that year?
Bruce Ramokgadi 08:03
When I started, they gave me R1 500.
John Manyike 08:08
You were earning R1 500.
Bruce Ramokgadi 08:08
I was earning R1 500.
John Manyike 08:10
What year was that?
Bruce Ramokgadi 08:12
It was 1994.
John Manyike 08:13
'94.
Bruce Ramokgadi 08:14
Yeah, ‘94 because in 1993, I wasn’t earning anything.
John Manyike 08:20
You were just playing?
Bruce Ramokgadi 08:22
No, no, I wasn’t playing, I was not even registered. I was not even signed. They signed me in ’94, after Mike Makaab told them to sign me. Yeah. Sign this boy. So, they started giving me R1 500; a cheque. They used to pay us with cheques, through the bank Lisbon at Sauer Street, but if you were late, it would bounce.
John Manyike 08:48
Late in what way? Oh, if you collect it late?
Bruce Ramokgadi 08:50
No, no, no, if you go and try and cash it late, you see...
John Manyike 08:55
So, when you’d get there, they would tell you it’s bounced?
Bruce Ramokgadi 08:56
It’s bounced. You’d find that Marks and all the other senior players were paid, and they left nothing in the account, because they earned a lot of money. So, when you arrive, trying to cash your cheque…
John Manyike 09:05
So, it means when they give you the cheque on the day, you must …
Bruce Ramokgadi 09:09
You must run straight to the bank.
John Manyike 09:12
Okay. At the time you went to play the CAF Champions Cup, were you still earning R1 500?
Bruce Ramokgadi 09:18
No, no, no, no, no I started R1.5k. I was earning that for a month.
John Manyike 09:22
Yeah.
Bruce Ramokgadi 09:23
And then the next thing is, I scored a goal and they increased.
John Manyike 09:27
Oh, to how much?
Bruce Ramokgadi 09:28
To R5 000.
John Manyike 90:28
To 5 000.
Bruce Ramokgadi 09:30
So, I scored a goal and they increased to R5 000, and there was no contract.
John Manyike 09:36
It was a gentlemen’s arrangement.
Bruce Ramokgadi 09:37
It was a gentlemen’s arrangement.
John Manyike 09:37
An unspoken agreement which states you must just play, and they’ll look after you.
Bruce Ramokgadi 09:42
Just play, and we’ll see how much we pay you.
John Manyike 09:44
Yeah. There were no contracts during those times?
Bruce Ramokgadi 09:46
No, there were no contracts.
John Manyike 09:47
So, when you returned from winning the Cup, where there any changes?
Bruce Ramokgadi 09:52
When we started playing that Cup, we didn't even know the significance of that Cup.
John Manyike 10:00
You guys thought just another Cup.
Bruce Ramokgadi 10:01
No, the thing is that we were getting incentives and the daily allowance in dollars.
John Manyike 10:08
Oh.
Bruce Ramokgadi 10:09
You see?
John Manyike 10:10
At least you were earning in dollars.
Bruce Ramokgadi 10:10
So, if you’re not chosen for the team, you don’t earn those dollars.
John Manyike 10:14
Oh.
Bruce Ramokgadi 10:15
So, you’d try your best to get onto that team so that you can get that allowance in dollars.
John Manyike 10:24
You guys were earning dollars during that time?
Bruce Ramokgadi 10:25
They used to give us…
John Manyike 10:26
How many dollars?
Bruce Ramokgadi 10:27
They used to give us $100 each.
John Manyike 10:31
Okay. And the Rand was a bit stronger back then. So, is that per match or after the competition?
Bruce Ramokgadi 10:36
Daily allowance.
John Manyike 10:37
Oh, daily allowance. You guys were alright then.
Bruce Ramokgadi 10:40
It was okay. There was also that money we would get at that time and we had to buy things around, like maybe at the airport, you’d buy yourself a perfume.
John Manyike 10:55
So, were you saving during that time? The dollars?
Bruce Ramokgadi 10:58
No.
John Manyike 10:59
You were tearing up those dollars.
Bruce Ramokgadi 11:00
The issue of saving as blacks, we were never taught that. That you should save actually, we were never taught about money… young black kids. Because we always knew that you live from hand to mouth.
John Manyike 11:17
Yeah. So, you retired around 24, 25 years. Because of your knee injury, did that affect your income? How or what happened?
Bruce Ramokgadi 11:27
No, obviously it affected my income because nothing was coming in, you know.
John Manyike 11:34
Immediately.
Bruce Ramokgadi 11:35
Immediately, because …
John Manyike 11:36
And at that time there is no contract in place.
Bruce Ramokgadi 11:39
We are in agreement with Pirates that we must terminate my contract.
John Manyike 11:43
So, at that time, there was a contract in place?
Bruce Ramokgadi 11:46
Yes, there was a contract in place then, the contract started in 1996.
John Manyike 11:49
Okay.
Bruce Ramokgadi 11:49
At the start of the premiership, because you remember Trevor Phillip, he came with a new idea of the PSL and then they introduced contracts, yeah.
John Manyike 12:02
At least it got a bit better.
Bruce Ramokgadi 12:33
Yeah, it was a bit better then.
John Manyike 12:04
So, were there things like disability cover for in case you got an injury as a soccer player?
Bruce Ramokgadi 12:09
Yeah, it's always there, it's always there. There's a cover for players. But unfortunately it’s for the team, it doesn't suit the players.
John Manyike 12:19
What, you don’t get anything as a player?
Bruce Ramokgadi 12:20
No, you don’t get anything.
John Manyike 12:21
Was it available?
Bruce Ramokgadi 12:22
It was there, it’s available even now.
John Manyike 12:24
Even then, it was available, when you got your injury, was it available?
Bruce Ramokgadi 12:27
The players have insurance.
John Manyike 12:29
But you didn’t smell a cent of that money?
Bruce Ramokgadi 12:31
I got nothing, I got nothing.
John Manyike 12:32
So, how long were you at home after your knee injury?
Bruce Ramokgadi 12:37
Actually, 2001, I got married with the little money I still had left over and then Pirates stopped paying me at the end of 2001. But that's where things started to get tough.
John Manyike 12:52
I can see that you’re even smiling a little when you talk about getting married. Which means you were happy with your relationship.
Bruce Ramokgadi 12:58
When it comes to marriage, marriage is a good thing.
John Manyike 12:59
Yes.
Bruce Ramokgadi 12:59
Because it brings two families together.
John Manyike 13:02
Yeah. And a semblance of order to one’s life.
Bruce Ramokgadi 13:04
And some order to life.
John Manyike 13:05
Provided that you are also disciplined.
Bruce Ramokgadi 13:07
It depends on how you were brought up.
John Manyike 13:09
Okay.
Bruce Ramokgadi 13:10
Yeah. And what kind of home you grew up in.
John Manyike 13:11
Yeah. What was the next big project for you?
Bruce Ramokgadi 13:14
Things started to get very, very tough.
John Manyike 13:18
After you got married?
Bruce Ramokgadi 13:20
After not getting an income, not the marriage per se, because I was planning, the marriage was planned.
John Manyike 13:27
It was always in the pipeline? Did that put pressure on the marriage? Maybe when work was dry?
Bruce Ramokgadi 13:32
Yeah, it did.
John Manyike 13:33
How?
Bruce Ramokgadi 13:34
It did because now only one person in the household works, you have to feed, eh …
John Manyike 13:38
At the time, only your wife was working?
Bruce Ramokgadi 13:40
My wife was the only one working, we must feed, we have two children and then, you know, when you are married, sometimes you need to feed your family, and then, I have my own family on this side.
John Manyike 13:52
Oh.
Bruce Ramokgadi 13:53
Yeah, you see, so the other family.
John Manyike 13:57
So now, how do you manage that situation of not working and…
Bruce Ramokgadi 14:00
No, I was trying things. I was trying things. I didn't sit down. At some point, I was a garnishing order officer.
John Manyike 14:07
Yeah?
Bruce Ramokgadi 14:08
I got a job where…
John Manyike 14:09
You were the one delivering garnishing orders?
Bruce Ramokgadi 14:12
I was … I got another job, but at some point, I decided it was not for me.
John Manyike 14:18
You’ll get hurt.
Bruce Ramokgadi 14:20
People are going to beat me up. So, yeah, I left that, and I became an agent.
John Manyike 14:26
Okay. Selling houses.
Bruce Ramokgadi 14:30
I sold houses. I met a wonderful lady. And invited her to work with me. I see you've got energy. You must come work with me here. Yeah, let's sell houses. I tried, I tried, I tried and then I started buying my own houses, at auctioning, now and then you know, I’d fix them, and sell them . But then in that moment, again, I divorced. While I was busy doing these projects. And remember the woman is the only one who gets an income because she works, she has the power to buy from … to go to the bank and apply for a loan. After that, things started to get worse, I didn't have the energy to sell houses, or to go to the auctions. I became discouraged, [I moved back home. I had to start afresh, we had to sell everything, you know, in community of property, you share assets.
John Manyike 15:31
Do you think the issue of your finances or maybe it's some kind of instability there? What put pressure on the marriage?
Bruce Ramokgadi 15:40
I didn't have a permanent job, that's the issue.
John Manyike 15:43
So, actually, your financial situation is what hurt you.
Bruce Ramokgadi 15:46
Yeah, most of the time, you enter into a marriage, thinking it’s a marriage, it’s not only about love, but you also have to provide. You’re a man, as we know, the man is the provider.
John Manyike 16:00
So, in the marriage, would they call you dad or refer to you as man of God?
Bruce Ramokgadi 16:06
They’d call me by my name.
John Manyike 16:08
Oh, they didn’t refer to you as man of God.
Bruce Ramokgadi 16:10
Nothing changed.
John Manyike 16:11
And then you moved from the property business and then you started scouting players and, how did that go? Are you still doing it?
Bruce Ramokgadi 16:20
I got a permanent job at Sports and Culture. I got a permanent job, I applied for it and went for an interview, and I got the job, so I’m full time there now. I work there now.
John Manyike 16:35
There was a time before where you were an agent, scouting talent?
Bruce Ramokgadi 16:40
Yeah, I tried that, I tried that.
John Manyike 16:42
It didn’t work? They didn’t ref.
Bruce Ramokgadi 16:43
You know, football politics, sometimes they discourage. And people who lie, it’s full of people who lie a lot, scammers. Yeah, they're only looking after their own interest. They actually don't look after the interest of the player. If ever we can change our mindset as Africans, in Africa as a whole our football can go very, very far.
John Manyike 17:10
But then, the last time I checked, I mean, football players in South Africa, they had a soccer union. How is that working?
Bruce Ramokgadi 17:18
They've got their own politics, in the union, because how can a person be a president from 2013 till now, and nothing is as ever happened for the players? You know, and they get in money these people from PSL.
John Manyike 17:38
What if they are not getting any money?
Bruce Ramokgadi 17:41
It's on record that they got 10 million apparently at some point.
John Manyike 17:44
Okay.
Bruce Ramokgadi 17:46
But nothing has ever happened for the players.
John Manyike 17:50
Yeah.
Bruce Ramokgadi 17:51
And they've got affiliates. You see, so, what's happening with that money, I don't know.
John Manyike 17:56
Would you say your life is a mixture of first half and second half?
Bruce Ramokgadi 18:01
Yeah.
John Manyike 18:01
How would you describe the summary of the first half versus second half?
Bruce Ramokgadi 18:05
First half, I would say, I didn't know anything about investing. I was naive. Actually, I was ignorant. Because money was coming in maybe a bit of fame as well, because I play for Pirates. Luckily, I played with my older players that were well known, and I got guidance from them. I played with Marks Maponyane, Bernard “Shoes” Lushozi, Teboho Moloi, Innocent Mncwango, and they still doing well. Even now. I was very lucky to play such guys. The second half, I got to realize what’s the importance of money. I tried to spend it wisely. I try to invest wisely now.
John Manyike 18:53
So, if you were to give some tips to the current crop of soccer players, while making money and you know, in the limelight, enjoying the fame, based on your experiences of first half of your life, what would you say to them?
Bruce Ramokgadi 19:09
They must try to listen to the elders because they know what they're talking about. The other thing is that they should try to get financial advisors. So that they can concentrate fully on playing. And then leave the issue of managing their money to the professionals.
John Manyike 19:29
Yeah. Do you have any financial regrets?
Bruce Ramokgadi 19:33
No, because I didn't get much, yeah, I don't have financial regrets.
John Manyike 19:39
Because it wasn’t a lot of money.
Bruce Ramokgadi 19:41
Yeah, there wasn’t, there wasn’t.
John Manyike 19:42
Even those dollars were much?
Bruce Ramokgadi 19:44
You’d only get those when you were playing …
John Manyike 19:46
But dollars and dollars, my man.
Bruce Ramokgadi 19:47
When you once in a while, go and play out of town, we would travel maybe every fortnight, and then the rest were local games.
John Manyike 20:01
What would you say was your biggest money lesson as a soccer player and having learned everything in life about everything, divorce and then trying to resuscitate your life, what has been your biggest money lesson?
Bruce Ramokgadi 20:15
I don't have a biggest money lesson. Because I've never had a lot of money, yeah, it's always from hand to mouth. I've never held a lot of money, like players of this time.
John Manyike 20:29
So, are you saying you were a poor famous soccer player?
Bruce Ramokgadi 20:32
I wouldn’t say I was poor.
John Manyike 20:38
Because you said you lived hand to mouth, is hand to mouth not poverty?
Bruce Ramokgadi 20:41
No, it's not poverty. There was money, we earned a salary, but then it wasn’t the amount of money that one can invest and make more money off it, you understand? Money that you could use to feed your family, buy yourself a house and pay a bond.
John Manyike 20:57
In those days, I mean if you know there was a time you were earning R1.5 Rand to R5000, R200, R300 back then if you were saving could have at least turned into something.
Bruce Ramokgadi 21:08
Yeah, that's why I said the first half, because I was naive. I was ignorant, actually that's why I said it’s the round of my life. But if I knew better, if I knew better, that R200 could have made much, much of a difference.
John Manyike 21:29
So, I'm sure there was a time where you were famous, people would see you on their screens, playing for Orlando Pirates. When you got to a place, they would recognize that it’s you.
Bruce Ramokgadi 21:42
Even now, they still recognize me.
John Manyike 21:43
They still recognize you?
Bruce Ramokgadi 21:44
I’m not that bad.
John Manyike 21:48
In all fairness, you have looked after yourself. My brother, we were grateful, thanks for coming.
Bruce Ramokgadi 21:53
No, thank you very much for inviting me.
John Manyike 21:56
I'm sure you know those that are watching will hear that there's something here you know, and we can learn a couple of lessons in your life. What would be your final words, you know, on the subject of money, and after everything else that you've seen in life. There are offsides, there are yellow cards and red cards, and all that.
Bruce Ramokgadi 22:17
Investment is the way to go. There is no shortcut. If you ever have money, invest your money in the right way, you can buy properties, holiday homes and rent them out. If ever you're not business minded, you can always do that to buy a few cars for Uber as long as there's money coming in, in your life, because when you have money going out, and you don’t have money coming in...
John Manyike 22:51
Yeah, it's a problem.
Bruce Ramokgadi 22:51
It’s a problem.
John Manyike 22:53
So, out of the group of people you played with back in those days, amongst those who are still alive is there one that you look up to say, you see this guy, he seems to be able to organize his financial life in a better way?
Bruce Ramokgadi 23:07
Bernard Lushozi is a professor now. He is very good in his finances. Even now, I look up to him. He's the one who used to, he was my roommate all the time. You know, he used to say to me, come with your books when we went to play out of town, I was still in school during that time. The time that we spend on the rest of Africa, when we were resting after training, read something, read something, always try to read something, related to school. Come with your books, and he would come with his books, when we were in our room, there was no time to play games, we used to play dice sometimes. So, most of the time, he’s got his books and I have mine. Yeah, I still look up to him.
John Manyike 23:58
Okay, it sounds like he was a good friend.
Bruce Ramokgadi 24:02
No, he's still a good friend even now.
John Manyike 24:05
My brother, thank you, all the best.
Bruce Ramokgadi 24:07
Thanks.
Old Mutual 24:08
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