Old Mutual On The Money
Old Mutual On The Money
Tumi Stopnonsons Matila on Building Wealth the Smart Way
From humble beginnings to the big stage, Tumi Stopnonsons Matila has been entertaining SA for over a decade. Yet this funny man takes a level-headed approach to building wealth through multiple income streams. Our Head of Financial Education, John Manyike, chatted with Tumi about his work ethic, strategy and approach to business and unearthed some great financial tips in the process.
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Old Mutual 00:00
Welcome to the On The Money Podcast with John Manyike.
John Manyike 00:05
Tumi, how’s it going?
Tumi Matila 00:06
Boss J, good thanks and you?
John Manyike 00:09
Good. Hey, I never thought this day will come, but please don’t paralyze me.
Tumi Matila 00:14
Don’t worry, I’m with you.
John Manyike 00:15
So, you’re the one being interviewed, I must remind you.
Tumi Matila 00:17
Alright, cool [laughs].
John Manyike 00:19
I’m interested in the part that people don't know about Tumi. And people, they see Tumi, then other times they see Jumaima. But let's start with where you began. Where were you born? I know you’re Soweto-born but yeah, but whereabouts and then you know tell us more about?
Tumi Matila 00:33
Actually, I was born in Soweto at Baragwanath Hospital, but didn't grow up actually in Soweto. The first years of my life, I was in Northwest and we stayed at a place called Mothotlung, just closer to Brits, I think until grade two and then that's when we moved this side to some squatter camp called Lawley. It’s just next to Lenasia.
John Manyike 01:02
It was a squatter camp?
Tumi Matila 01:04
Yeah, till today it's still there. I mean, we’re boys that live in shacks.
John Manyike 01:06
What do they call it, what do they call that place?
Tumi Matila 01:09
It's called Lawley, but now they added Lawley Estates, yeah. It's called Estates. I don’t know why.
John Manyike 01:14
Yeah, okay.
Tumi Matila 01:15
So, yeah, I grew up there, it's a very interesting neighborhood. I mean, It’s 50% black people and 50% coloured people. It was very interesting to grow up there. Yeah, I can say most of my life is there in that area up until now. I’m in the township they call Sandton, I'm not sure if you know it? [Laughs] I grew up in a very strict Christian family.
John Manyike 01:43
Okay.
Tumi Matila 01:44
As a pastor's kid.
John Manyike 01:46
Yeah. So, your father was a pastor?
Tumi Matila 01:54
He’s a Bishop till today.
John Manyike 01:55
So, you are a bishop of jokes?
Tumi Matila 01:57
Yeah, that's what I always say. No, but when I'm on stage, I say, “Don't cast your parents, love your parents on to” you know.
John Manyike 02:00
Yeah.
Tumi Matila 02:01
Oh my God.
John Manyike 02:01
Okay.
Tumi Matila 02:02
[Laughs]. So, yeah, it goes like, you know, any other typical PK, being forced to participate in church, playing drums, I played keys and for lots of time I thought, actually I don’t know, I'm actually going to be a musician.
John Manyike 02:16
Okay.
Tumi Matila 02:16
If that doesn't work out, then probably be an actor. I never thought that I'll ever be a standup comedian, you know what I'm saying, a very interesting childhood man, you know, being raised with both parents up until they divorced. And then other dynamics became different in a way, to a point whereby I started to self-raise [laugh] at a very young age, because there's a point where I was also homeless. And-
John Manyike 02:43
When was it?
Tumi Matila 02:46
Yeah, like literally…
John Manyike 02:48
You were homeless?
Tumi Matila 02:49
Yeah. And this was when, okay, so this is how it happened.
John Manyike 02:52
Yeah.
Tumi Matila 02:53
When after graduating, right after graduating,
John Manyike 02:57
You’re graduating from where? Do creches also have graduations?
Tumi Matila 02:59
So, I studied IT, software development. I'm a programmer by profession, which I never utilized. My love has always been just to be on stage. I've never loved anything else. So, after graduate and you must understand that that time the parents had just split and then now it's a new setup and with a new mom, and then now all of a sudden, they say this business of me going on stage, you want to go on stage, we're not gonna condone, we've paid so much for you to go and study. And a stubborn me was like, I don't think I can fathom staying under that room, it felt so depressed being in that house. So, in order for me to be able to pursue what I want, it's fine. The streets are calling.
John Manyike 03:48
Yeah.
Tumi Matila 03:44
And I just left, you know, well, that was the ultimatum that I was given or you choose, you're gonna stay and go job hunting. And then I was like, “Nah, I'm not gonna do it.” I don't want to have a boss. So, I left. And that's when I think like, my passion for, or my hunger for actually making this thing of laughter to become a business and all these things developed. So, William Nicol, there's a field station there that I used to camp. So, because it was closer to the comedy club, there was a comedy club in Monte Casino, it was called Parker’s Comedy. So, it was easier for me to walk from there to there. And I had my boys around the neighborhood, when their wives cooked, they used to bring leftovers for me, and I’d eat that, and I'd bath in their locker rooms. I spent like two years yeah, and funny thing is people didn't even know because in the public-
John Manyike 04:35
I have a place to be.
Tumi Matila 04:38
In the public, I always maintained I'm doing well, guys. I don't know how they didn't even catch on, but I was wearing the same clothes every time.
John Manyike 04:45
Okay. But I need to understand this place where you are staying. Was it a bridge, pipe, what was it?
Tumi Matila 04:50
No, I would stay at a garage like a fuel station.
John Manyike 04:53
A filling station?
Tumi Matila 04:54
Yeah, is a filling station. Yeah, so the guys that were there, because those shifts were long for them. So, they enjoyed me talking to them, making jokes, entertaining them.
John Manyike 05:03
Yeah.
Tumi Matila 05:04
At some point, I would even like offer, let me help out. Let me help you fill, but they’re like, “No, it's not allowed and this and that”, but yeah, that's why…
John Manyike 05:13
Wait a minute, so a lot of filling stations have toilets, where were you staying?
Tumi Matila 05:19
[Laugh] they've got lockers. They've got lockers.
John Manyike 05:22
I see the lockers.
Tumi Matila 05:25
They have their own room. That's what they prepare there. There's a kettle there. They've got cups there that are greasy.
John Manyike 05:32
So, you were staying in that small room of theirs, where they change.
Tumi Matila 05:35
Two years straight.
John Manyike 05:38
Sure. And so but the owner didn't pick up, No man, there’s someone staying here?
Tumi Matila 05:42
No, the thing is, these guys work shifts, right. So now ,during the day, I'm not there. I only come late. I even knew their schedules.
John Manyike 05:50
And the owner?
Tumi Matila 05:52
Never, never there.
John Manyike 05:54
So, you stayed at a filling station two years?
Tumi Matila 05:58
Yeah, two years of my life.
John Manyike 05:58
Wow.
Tumi Matila 05:59
And I'm trying out this comedy thing that doesn't even look promising, that time you're literally giving for nothing, because you know what promoters will always say, we're giving you exposure., we want you to develop certain stage confidence and all these things that they were talking.
John Manyike 06:15
Yeah.
Tumi Matila 06:15
But one thing that I knew that I had vowed to myself because I voluntarily decided to be homeless, because I really wanted to do this thing. So, I told myself, you know what, by the time I go back, and and reunite with my family, I want to go back having something, you know what I'm saying it's like, okay, this is why I left.
John Manyike 06:36
So, your family didn’t look for you, or try to reach out.
Tumi Matila 06:42
Awkward enough, awkward enough, the only person was my mom, because I had an option to because my mom was very supportive. But now the problem is, my mom has to take care of my other siblings, understand that they are unemployed, or at least I don't want to go and be a burden to my mom who's unemployed. So, I don't want to go there. Every time we speak over the phone to me, "Tumi, are you okay?" I'm like, I'm good. Things are good. You know what I'm saying? She didn't know.
John Manyike 07:06
But isn't that how people are handling things these days. You know, especially... well, people are famous. I know at the time, it was just in the beginning. But isn't that maybe the kind of thing that we see in our society, where people are putting up this face as if they are making it a successful life, but in fact, no.
Tumi Matila 07:25
I always say it's a very tricky and very dangerous thing to ever do to yourself, right. When, when it comes to business wise, I mean, your presentation or whatever makes sense. I can't say to you, hey, if you say you want me for a gig, and then I'm like, I'm charging 120,000 to come and MC your event. And then whereas I rock up in an Uber or a Tazz. So, there's always that image that you need to put up first, in order for, you know, for it to make sense.
John Manyike 07:53
Credibility, kind of, some sort.
Tumi Matila 07:54
You know what I'm saying?
John Manyike 07:55
Yeah.
Tumi Matila 07:55
So, that's what we have normalized. And to point out, and now we start living that, you know what I'm saying? You will forget, but that is just you. I mean, if we're an only petrol attendant, you're not a petrol attendant when you get home.
John Manyike 08:09
Yeah.
Tumi Matila 08:10
If you are, or even especially now that you're in the public, you have to maintain that standard. And you forget that, but this is not really you. It's what you need to put out there in order for you to pay the bills.
John Manyike 08:21
You never thought that one day you would end up being a standup comedian. But growing up , you did not have from school.
Tumi Matila 08:29
I was suspended from school and expelled for teasing someone.
John Manyike 08:32
What?
Tumi Matila 08:33
The first time, and then, yeah...
John Manyike 08:33
Suspended from school and expelled for teasing someone.
Tumi Matila 08:34
And then yeah, then they asked me to bring my parents.
John Manyike 08:36
Yeah.
Tumi Matila 08:37
I go to a local tavern, got someone that was drunk. And I said, Hey, my guy, please kick in, play my father. Please, they want to see my father. Then that guy I gave him R2, we went to my school, he convinced them that he’s my father, that's my son. [Laughs] So, the funny thing is, I told him straight my name is Tumelo. Ya, Tshepo my son, not even Tshepo, this guys.
John Manyike 09:05
[Laughs] so what did the school say that?
Tumi Matila 09:06
No, okay, they bought the story. They're like, okay, cool. They gave me the last warning. And then after then, the other time, so and I wasn't even aware. Like for me, because I grew up like being the skinny guy that was easy to bully in school, you know what I'm saying? My only defense mechanism was to return it verbally. You know what I'm saying? You always have like your victims that, you know, those are your victims victims. Hey, this guy is not coming to school now. It’s been what three weeks? [Laughs] The parent comes, hey, my child is no longer attending school, what's happening? And the child tells the mother the reason why I'm not coming to school is because of this guy. This guy has been teasing me, he bullies me. That's when I was expelled, I had to change schools.
John Manyike 09:47
Okay. For teasing?
Tumi Matila 09:49
Yeah, for teasing, And from my, like, in the house from childhood, like my mom would always say, I used to be like the best impersonator, especially like I look at someone how they pray and whatever, and then I'll do that when I get home. And that would be like their entertainment. So, it's always been there. But we must understand the background that will come from like, standup comedy was never a thing. It was never seen as…
John Manyike 10:16
No, it was not famous.
Tumi Matila 10:17
Do you know what I'm saying? We only like started taking serious when we saw, eh, Trevor. People can eat out of this thing. So, the only thing that I thought that was ever going to be probably, I was going to act in a comedy series or whatever, that's there, you know what I'm saying? But I never thought that I can actually stand in front of people and invite them into my world and tell them stories and then they laugh about that. And I can actually make revenue out of that.
John Manyike 10:37
Yeah. So, that is your main source of income?
Tumi Matila 1040
Yeah, 100%.
John Manyike 10:41
Hey, we see people being slapped out here. Have you ever had anyone try to throw something at you-
Tumi Matila 10:49
A lot of time.
John Manyike 10:49
-for making a joke?
Tumi Matila 10:50
A lot of times. Here's the thing, and this is something that I really find funny. People, someone will pay to come in watch you tell jokes.
John Manyike 10:59
Yeah.
Tumi Matila 11:00
The mood around, it’s just laughter, right. There's this other show that I once did in Pretoria. I remember, not so long ago, I think it was maybe three years ago. I used to host some club. I get on stage. You see this thing of picking on people like it coincidentally, when that guy came in, I was like, “Guys, I’m with you”, criminally… Because of how he was wearing, but I didn't, like it wasn't a serious thing. But in reality that guy…
John Manyike 11:32
He is a criminal [laugh].
Tumi Matila 11:32
I'm telling jokes, I’m there and every two minutes I go back to him, and I’m like, hey, guys, my phone. Oh, it's still here. Check out the guy. People are laughing.
John Manyike 11:43
Yeah.
Tumi Matila 11:44
This guy thinks O already did like a background check, guy. As I turned, I remember very well, he hit me on my back with a bottle but it didn’t like, hit like, directly inside and then it moved to the sliding door, eh now, and people are like what's happening? The bouncers are coming. And they call me to the kitchen. You don't have an office. They call me to the kitchen and they say, my guy, this guy is a top criminal here in Pretoria. Don't ever again. They call the guy, I apologize. I'm stubborn, next week he is there, I'm like, “ Crimmie Crimmie” you are back [laugh] at that time, he was laughing. You know what I’m saying? He had already now understood the mood.
John Manyike 12:32
You mentioned someone like Trevor Noah. This is a profession, a proper one. How much do you charge for a gig?
Tumi Matila 12:41
Yo, it depends. I've got a friend that does gigs for free. When somebody calls me, then I do gigs for free. But my price range now is quite interesting, hey. If it's corporate, I do know for a fact that I charge them differently. It depends on the scope of work that I need to do, but 60 upwards. That's what I charge for corporate, if I'm doing your social events. I mean, it's negotiable.
John Manyike 13:05
Yeah.
Tumi Matila 13:05
25, 30… yeah, it depends also on the distance that I have to travel, because I don't have travel alone. It's me, it's my road manager...
John Manyike 13:15
So, how many gigs more or less you do? I know some months will be different. Firstly, probably will be busier. But in a normal month, I mean, apart from...
Tumi Matila 13:24
Here's an interesting thing about me, right. I make sure that at least in the week, I gig maybe four times. If I'm not booked, I create my own gigs, because I've got my own club - by the way, I own a club. So, if I'm not booked, I just call my boys, guys, let's go perform at my club. I'll pay you.
John Manyike 13:41
I know it's not an easy one to say. But it sounds like 200k is easy to do for a standup comedian who's consistent?
Tumi Matila 13:49
It is actually.
John Manyike 13:50
I'm not trying to invite people.
Tumi Matila 13:51
No, no, no, no, you can tell them my worth. Guys, please, whoever's watching, if you want to book me, 200,000.
John Manyike 13:58
So, how does the investment thing work in your life?
Tumi Matila 14:01
Here’s one thing about me. I've always told myself I don't know for how long I'm going to be relevant. It's by God's grace that I've managed, I think it's close to 10 years that I've still been consistent and, you know, killing stages, getting booked. But one thing that I knew, is that whatever that I get now, I need to make sure that I plant it somewhere. Out of comedy, I managed to start a farm, got a club. I'm building another club. What else am I doing? I've got a cleaning company now that I'm running. Whatever cent that I get from comedy, I've always thought: What if tomorrow there's someone who's funnier than me and my friends? And by my friends, I mean, Kevin Hart, Steve Harvey, and you know, the likes [laughs].
John Manyike 14:44
Hey, you’re talking big.
Tumi Matila 14:46
[Laughs] We grew up together, and it's not something that I post about, but, hey, now that we are here, I might as well.
John Manyike 14:52
Yeah.
Tumi Matila 14:52
But I've always been very smart when it comes to money. Simple things, like you'll never find me randomly in a club. You know what I'm saying? If I'm at a club, I'm at my club. So, if I'm not getting paid, there's nothing. I love staying indoors. I love being at home.
John Manyike 15:05
So, you took a swipe, I won't mention the name of this club that you had an issue with them. So, what was the problem? What was it?
Tumi Matila 15:12
So, here's the thing. I, for one, I think maybe also, I've became so confident with the investments that I've made to a point whereby I'm able to stand up. A lot of comedians or artists, they take what I would, for lack of a better word, say nonsense contracts. You know what I'm saying? So, because they are desperate, you know what I'm saying? I was getting my money from the club, I was getting paid monthly that was okay. But their are treatment towards other comedians, for me, didn't necessarily sit well with me. I was like, but how do I justify the fact that first of all, I'm selling tickets at this venue. But the money that you're saying I need to take and give to other comedians, it's not even half of what we are making there. You are running a bar. You've got a sponsor also. Why are we even having all these people? No, it's because you are on our payroll and you're charging us this much. How do I justify telling comedians that e.g. R200 tickets, we're making, if it's 200 seats, we're making 40,000. And then you're telling me now I must take 10,000 and split it with other comedians, how do I justify to them? That was my issue.
John Manyike 16:21
So, when it comes to money, what is the one or two things that are non-negotiable?
Tumi Matila 16:26
I wouldn't allow someone to tell me that money is the root of all evil [laughs]. We can't negotiate that one. Money is happiness, it's peace, it's all these things. But on a serious note, things that are non-negotiable. I'm a very religious, spiritual person. I can't, I will never sell myself or sell my soul for money, that's number one. Number two, when you're booking me, you're not booking me to go make people laugh. Basically you're just buying my time. When I look at money, I look at time, that's my attitude towards money. You can't buy time, but you can convert time into money, that's my attitude towards money.
John Manyike 16:58
You did the gig, "Date my Family". Well, not gig, per se, but you appeared before you were famous, did that launch your career?
Tumi Matila 17:08
If you were to trace back, there's a there's a skit that I did where I was talking about Khumbula Khaya, where I was telling people that Patrice Mostepe is my dad, and I wrote to Khumbula Khaya, and blah, blah, blah, that, that was the first platform that sort of like shed light on this career, right, or to this talent. And then after that, I went to "Date my Family". So, the producer calls me, “My guy, I know you're single”. And now the viewership here is not working. I want you to go there, be yourself. And I said it's an opportunity for me to get love, maybe if that happens. Also, let me just go have fun because I felt like everyone that was going to the show was like pretending like they were not themselves. Since when do you pull a chair for your girl, since when do you open a door, my guy, just be yourself. And all sorts of things, ey man, and on a Tuesday you eat noodles. Be that guy. So, I just went there to stand up for reality, you know what I'm saying? Lucky enough that just you know, gave the show views and everyone, I became like, oh shock in the morning when I wake up and I'm like, whoa, there's a DM from Somizi. Black Coffee follows me. I'm like eh, guys I've made it. Now, I checked the numbers are going higher. Now, I'm getting bookings now. They are calling me. I went there with the pure intention of just having fun. And also if there's a chance... funny thing is, even the lady that I got there. We pushed a good relationship, like eight months or so.
John Manyike 18:34
Because hey man, people were wondering how this guy, first day or so and you’re kissing this girl.
Tumi Matila 18:38
I was kissing. I'm a kisser of note. I kiss for a living.
John Manyike 18:55
You know people think Tumi is always cracking jokes. What is the serious side of Tumi?
Tumi Matila 19:02
The serious side? I always say it's my work ethic. I'm a 24 hour jolly person. When I wake up after saying my prayer, devotions. I'm like, I instantly kick into a jolly person. Even if I've got something that is not sitting well with me, I address it right there. I do not compromise on my happiness. You will never ever see me angry unless it's something that's happening and I have to react. And then after then two minutes later, then I'm very jolly. So, it's just you take my work serious. You must know that when you get to the office in the boardroom there, I'm very serious. But after that, there's nothing that I really take serious.
John Manyike 19:41
Give us a sample of a prayer, the way you pray, the way you do pray?
Tumi Matila 19:46
Ai, no! I only pray in tongues.
John Manyike 19:49
Ah, no!
Tumi Matila 19:50
Are you ready?
John Manyike 19:50
Let's not go there!
Tumi Matila 19:53
Anytime. Let’s start now in fact [laughs]. Lord, I started praying at a young age, then I got to this age, now I'm this age. You can take me out of the church, but you can\'t take the church out of me.
John Manyike 20:16
I know.
Tumi Matila 20:17
And God hears this prayer.
John Manyike 20:23
I hear you, I hear you. What would you say to other comedians out there, who seem to be focusing on just comedy but not thinking of having multiple streams of income?
Tumi Matila 20:34
We come from, you know, a very interesting [laughs] two years, where Covid was the thing. If you didn't learn from that experience, then you're very stubborn, you don't even deserve to be an artist. I don't even think it should even be directed to just comedians, everyone, if you've got your eggs in one basket, you're planning your failure. Because I remember when Covid happened, a lot of comedians had to go back to the rural areas. They lost their houses. I had to downgrade. I sold my cars. I collect cars. I remember at some point I had like seven cars. And Covid happened, now I'm left with four.
John Manyike 21:20
That's still a lot of cars.
Tumi Matila 21:21
Yeah, not for me, for you. And I love cars.
John Manyike 21:25
That that is for showing your clients and stuff.
Tumi Matila 21:28
Not really. I love cars. And I love building cars. I've got a huge passion of building cars, especially with the speeding cars, and all these things. So, I'll buy a body and start building a car from scratch, that's me. When Covid happened, I started seeing this train is moving, I am not sure how long this nightmare is gonna last, when you're no longer getting those bookings. And not because you're no longer funny but maybe there's something better, there's someone better that is grabbing the world's attention and yeah, we'll see you wena.
John Manyike 22:00
Funny you should say that, I was talking to a money influencer.
Tumi Matila 22:04
Oh, yeah, I know him from the vaal.
John Manyike 22:08
Yes, and I was saying to him he knows people who were once famous, had money, but today they are nowhere to be found what, what were the crowd funding you know. And I said to him, look, unless you change the way you're doing things one day, they rely on crowdfunding now. I said to him look, unless you change your ways, one day you’re going to be broke, week after week. But at least I'm inspired by how you're approaching life. And basically the issue of investing and you know, having a farm, different things you do, the clubs and all these different things that you do to make money. Because you can't just rely on one thing like you said.
Tumi Matila 22:40
The funny thing is, you didn't even ask me, “How does my dad feel about me having a club?” [Laughs].
John Manyike 22:46
Let's talk about either because I'm just wondering, I guess maybe at some stage your father had to make peace with the fact. So, how does that relationship work now with your dad?
Tumi Matila 22:59
I think my dad has a very cool approach towards Christianity or religion overall. My dad is one person that says, you know what, I've told you the way, I've taught you the word, you know where to run to in terms of distress when you are... you know what I'm saying? I can only teach you that. And then whatever you decide to do with the wisdom that I've departed on you, then it's totally up to you.
John Manyike 23:27
It's up to you.
Tumi Matila 23:28
I think also, now you can't complain because the club also extends his house, paints the house, takes some of the siblings to school. So, he can't complain as such, it’s only so much that tithes can do [laughs].
John Manyike 23:40
Yeah. What has been your worst financial decision?
Tumi Matila 23:45
My worst financial decision has to be partnering with friends when it comes to business. I feel like it becomes very difficult, especially when you're close to someone, like, like personally. Even when you see things are going this way, like you know, you're not for the sake of peace and the relationship that you have let me rather not doing business with friends. Yes, this has to be the worst. I've lost so much money. Now I'm like, you know, I try to start it on a small scale, instead of inviting other people to inject funds. At least they're everything I’m in control of, you know what I'm saying?
John Manyike 24:22
If you were to give some tips to people who are artists, around handling money, what would you say?
Tumi Matila 24:30
Be realistic, live within your margins. You might be a superstar on stage. At the end of it all, that life is just there on stage. Off stage, you're a normal person, you've got bills, you've got things that you need to take care of. I don't understand why would you want to drive a 4 million car? Whereas you're still renting. There was this rapper, A-Reece from Pretoria. He was being bashed for walking into a chicken franchise, which we all grew up loving. You know what I'm saying? The three letter one. And he was being was being bashed, like what’s happening. What's wrong with that? What if on that day, I feel like actually... so now, I must force myself, I must be there in Sandton City, eating at what hotel so that I can maintain the respect that people have for me or that they view the brand as. Especially us that are given that platform that we can express and tell. We need to also go back and educate our audiences that, hey, guys, I don't know. I'm also a person. You know it's been 12 years since I was last in a taxi. I miss that. I miss just saying after robot but I can't do that, because now you are there are, now you're trending. oh, this guy, what happened to his bank? What happened to this? You know what I'm saying? So, I think also we need to also be quite kind towards each other and understand that “Hey, guy, that, that life is only for entertainment.” At the end of it all, I also want to be able to go eat a Kota, and not be questioned or judged.
John Manyike 26:09
I'm sure those who are watching or listening have a lot to learn. Brother Tumi, than you so much.
Tumi Matila 26:14
Did you learn anything?
John Manyike 26:15
Thank you so much.
Tumi Matila 26:17
Did you learn anything?
John Manyike 26:18
Of course, I did.
Tumi Matila 26:19
What did you learn?
John Manyike 26:20
I learned you were homeless [laughs]
Tumi Matila 26:26
Thanks for having me.
John Manyike 26:27
My pleasure.
Old Mutual 26:27
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